From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why all the Alt bindings by default? Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:35:47 +1100 Message-ID: References: <6F1ADCC148584A4A80CF9FF727BE1915@us.oracle.com> <67D259D03C5D4CEEB3735689FE31215A@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319665029 23971 80.91.229.12 (26 Oct 2011 21:37:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:37:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Andreas Schwab , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 26 23:37:05 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJB9k-00007V-OY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 23:37:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55514 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJB9j-0001i1-UX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:37:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:40569) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJB9g-0001hX-Eh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJB9f-0001NV-9G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:37:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:54925) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJB9f-0001NP-4g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:36:59 -0400 Original-Received: by iagf6 with SMTP id f6so3048876iag.0 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EVzD3OHQT43Oixq5m4QIUQlTcdFA8EK6ETTAzH6iV3E=; b=PVgKbzmAbaG+N/wXAJcaFugNP6bW64EY5oFUz9vo718LsO6kmUKaKvt4pF1ZEA4jOB Rq8XSCcmhXuR/rjjRoExcscTgh+Piq5SGYVnLQDuPQZhn2yHGQ/TePnTyHNC2lJVcsra Vdryz6VC0qfJ3HV+9sJ3mmLgFfEXxOOjYv+XI= Original-Received: by 10.42.135.66 with SMTP id o2mr21634106ict.0.1319664947828; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.12.67 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:35:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <67D259D03C5D4CEEB3735689FE31215A@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:145604 Archived-At: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >> > What is the new feature? >> >> There is nothing new here. =A0This is almost as old as Emacs. > > I thought that seeing `A-/' etc. listed as a binding was new in Emacs 24.= =A0But > following the same recipe in Emacs 23.2 and 23.3 (but not 23.1) shows the= same > thing. =A0So this was new with Emacs 23.2, not Emacs 24, and it belongs i= n the > Emacs 23.2 NEWS. > > Or maybe you feel that it is a bug rather than a feature or the consequen= ce of a > feature? > > > Regardless of whether it appeared in emacs 23 or 24 or whether it requires more than 1 C-h b for the Alt 'bindings' to be shown with C-h b, the bottom line is that these key translations are shown as key bindings when they are not. Apart from being misleading for users, I find it a pain having to scroll past all of these misleading entries to get to what I'm after - information on key bindings. Something is needed that at the very least will filter these entries out of C-h b. One question I do have - what happens if you do have a keyboard that is setup to have both meta and alt (as well as super and hypa) and you want to do a real alt binding using one of these keys? It is fairly trivial to setup your keyboard to have hypa nd supa under X, so I suspect adding alt is not that hard given the number of keyboards with extra/dead keys available. Tim --=20 Tim Cross