From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
To: Andrea Corallo <akrl@sdf.org>
Cc: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com>,
Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: non-gnu elpa issue tracking
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 09:59:21 +1100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC=50j__mG6K8c3Q2X6n7t9382vYGZ1naq_H4nuN4OeL4vq4aw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xjflfe2yqtc.fsf@sdf.org>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 10231 bytes --]
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 20:54, Andrea Corallo <akrl@sdf.org> wrote:
> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 15:56, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> >
> > > > I think a mandatory requirement should simply be that any
> > > > packages which go into non-GNU ELPA are hosted on an approved
> > > > platform. We could point to a list of such hosting providers
> > > > e.g. https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html
> > > > and say Grade C or better only. .
> >
> > > There is no such requirement for GNU ELPA at the moment.
> >
> > GNU ELPA packages are hosted inside GNU ELPA itself. The package
> > developers update their packages inside GNU ELPA.
> >
> > NonGNU ELPA will be quite different. Packages will generally be
> > hosted elsewhere. We won't insist that the developers do things
> > in the way we would consider acceptable in the GNU Project.
> >
> > Sorry, but I don't think this is an accurate statement. The GNU ELPA
> repository has external packages where the code is
> > primarily maintained/developed externally, often on github. A 'regular'
> process pulls the data into the GNU ELPA
> > repository to generate new/updated package versions.
>
> Are you sure? AFAIK there's no such regular process, merging code from
> outside is done manually by the package maintainer or often by Stefan.
>
> Also an 'external package' is just a package hosted in a dedicated
> branch in elpa.git (BTW I believe now all packages are external). And
> yes 'external' is probably not the best naming for this.
>
> Andrea
>
I could be wrong about the process being automated.
However, from the elpa git repository, the externals-list file says
;; List of packages that are maintained externally.
;; The list is made of elements of the form (NAME KIND URL OPTS...).
and that list contains the following -
(("ace-window" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/ace-window")
("ack" :external "https://github.com/leoliu/ack-el")
("aggressive-indent" :external "
https://github.com/Malabarba/aggressive-indent-mode")
("ahungry-theme" :external "https://github.com/ahungry/color-theme-ahungry
")
("async" :external "https://github.com/jwiegley/emacs-async")
("avy" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/avy")
("beacon" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/beacon")
("bnf-mode" :external "https://github.com/sergeyklay/bnf-mode")
("buffer-expose" :external "https://github.com/clemera/buffer-expose")
("bug-hunter" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/elisp-bug-hunter")
("cobol-mode" :external "
https://gist.github.com/Edward-H/6768e7dc53ea3dd2adca")
("clipboard-collector" :external "
https://github.com/clemera/clipboard-collector")
("coffee-mode" :external "https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode")
("compact-docstrings" :external "
https://github.com/cpitclaudel/compact-docstrings")
("company" :external "https://github.com/company-mode/company-mode.git")
("company-math" :external "https://github.com/vspinu/company-math.git")
("company-statistics" :external "
https://github.com/company-mode/company-statistics")
("context-coloring" :external "
https://github.com/jacksonrayhamilton/context-coloring.git")
("counsel" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/swiper")
("cpio-mode" :external "https://github.com/dlewan/cpio-mode")
("darkroom" :external "
https://github.com/capitaomorte/darkroom.git")
("dash" :external "https://github.com/magnars/dash.el.git")
("dbus-codegen" :external "https://github.com/ueno/dbus-codegen-el.git")
("diffview" :external "
https://github.com/mgalgs/diffview-mode.git")
("diff-hl" :external "https://github.com/dgutov/diff-hl.git")
("dired-git-info" :external "https://github.com/clemera/dired-git-info")
("dts-mode" :external "https://github.com/bgamari/dts-mode.git")
("easy-kill" :external "https://github.com/leoliu/easy-kill")
("ebdb" :external "https://github.com/girzel/ebdb.git")
("eev" :external "https://github.com/edrx/eev.git") ;branch UTF-8
("eglot" :external "https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot.git")
("eldoc-eval" :external "https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
")
("ergoemacs-mode" :external "
https://github.com/ergoemacs/ergoemacs-mode.git")
("expand-region" :external "https://github.com/magnars/expand-region.el")
("exwm" :external "https://github.com/ch11ng/exwm.git")
("f90-interface-browser" :external "https://github.com/wence-/f90-iface")
("frog-menu" :external "https://github.com/clemera/frog-menu")
("ggtags" :external "https://github.com/leoliu/ggtags")
("gnome-c-style" :external "https://github.com/ueno/gnome-c-style.git")
("guess-language" :external "https://github.com/tmalsburg/guess-language.el
")
("highlight-escape-sequences" :external "
https://github.com/dgutov/highlight-escape-sequences/")
("hydra" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/hydra")
("ioccur" :external "https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git")
("ivy" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/swiper")
("ivy-explorer" :external "https://github.com/clemera/ivy-explorer")
("ivy-posframe" :external "https://github.com/tumashu/ivy-posframe")
("js2-mode" :external "https://github.com/mooz/js2-mode.git")
("leaf" :external "https://github.com/conao3/leaf.el")
("load-relative" :external "http://github.com/rocky/emacs-load-relative")
("loc-changes" :external "http://github.com/rocky/emacs-loc-changes")
("loccur" :external "https://github.com/fourier/loccur")
("math-symbol-lists" :external "
https://github.com/vspinu/math-symbol-lists.git")
("mines" :external "https://github.com/calancha/Minesweeper")
("mmm-mode" :external "https://github.com/purcell/mmm-mode.git")
("multishell" :external "https://github.com/kenmanheimer/EmacsMultishell")
("muse" :external "https://github.com/alexott/muse") ;FIXME: Not nearly
in-sync
("nameless" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/Nameless")
("names" :external "http://github.com/Malabarba/names")
("objed" :external "https://github.com/clemera/objed")
("on-screen" :external "
https://github.com/michael-heerdegen/on-screen.el.git")
("pabbrev" :external "https://github.com/phillord/pabbrev.git")
("parsec" :external "
https://github.com/cute-jumper/parsec.el.git")
("peg" :external) ;Was in "https://github.com/ellerh/peg.el"
("phps-mode" :external "https://github.com/cjohansson/emacs-phps-mode")
("pinentry" :external "https://github.com/ueno/pinentry-el.git")
("posframe" :external "https://github.com/tumashu/posframe")
("psgml" :external "https://github.com/lenst/psgml.git")
("realgud" :external "https://github.com/realgud/realgud")
("realgud-ipdb" :external "https://github.com/realgud/realgud-ipdb")
("realgud-jdb" :external "https://github.com/realgud/jdb")
("realgud-lldb" :external "https://github.com/realgud/realgud-lldb")
("realgud-node-debug" :external "
https://github.com/realgud/realgud-node-debug")
("realgud-node-inspect" :external "
https://github.com/realgud/realgud-node-inspect")
("realgud-trepan-ni" :external "https://github.com/realgud/realgud-ni")
("relint" :external "https://github.com/mattiase/relint")
("rich-minority" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/rich-minority")
("sotlisp" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/speed-of-thought-lisp")
("spinner" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/spinner.el")
("sql-indent" :external "
https://github.com/alex-hhh/emacs-sql-indent")
("ssh-deploy" :external "https://github.com/cjohansson/emacs-ssh-deploy")
("swiper" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/swiper")
("temp-buffer-browse" :external "
https://github.com/leoliu/temp-buffer-browse")
("test-simple" :external "
https://github.com/rocky/emacs-test-simple")
("validate" :external "https://github.com/Malabarba/validate.el")
("vdiff" :external "https://github.com/justbur/emacs-vdiff")
("tiny" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/tiny")
("transient" :external "https://github.com/magit/transient")
("valign" :external "https://github.com/casouri/valign")
("vlf" :external "https://github.com/m00natic/vlfi")
("wcheck-mode" :external "https://github.com/tlikonen/wcheck-mode")
("wconf" :external "https://github.com/ilohmar/wconf")
("web-server" :external "https://github.com/eschulte/emacs-web-server.git")
("websocket" :external "https://github.com/ahyatt/emacs-websocket.git")
("which-key" :external "
https://github.com/justbur/emacs-which-key")
("xelb" :external "https://github.com/ch11ng/xelb.git")
("xr" :external "https://github.com/mattiase/xr")
("yasnippet" :external "https://github.com/capitaomorte/yasnippet.git")
("ztree" :external "https://github.com/fourier/ztree")
So copies of the code are hosted in GNU ELPA, but the master code is hosted
and maintained on github for the above packages. So while we can spin it in
many ways, code with copyright assigned to the FSF is maintained
(developed, bug fixed etc) on github. Furthermore, many of the packages
from the above list I looked at are actively managing issues using Github's
web interface. Finally, when you look at some of these packages in the
package listing and select the package to view its info, the homepage for
the package is listed as github.
I don't have an issue with this, but it does seem inconsistent to argue
github does not comply with FSF philosophy and guidelines while at the same
time using it to maintain code which the FSF holds the copyright for and to
have references to github as the homepage for the package. To argue this
is all OK because the packages are delivered from a GNU ELPA repository
really just feels like we are playing with semantics. It feels a bit like
saying "While our shoes are made by children in a 3rd world sweat shop, we
only sell them in outlets which are run in an ethical manner."
--
Tim Cross
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 19234 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-12-13 22:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-12-09 12:55 non-gnu elpa issue tracking Boruch Baum
2020-12-09 16:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-12-09 19:18 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-09 21:48 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-12-09 23:40 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-09 23:58 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-11 6:09 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-11 6:05 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 6:28 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-09 19:23 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-09 23:22 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-10 0:09 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-10 9:14 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-10 11:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-12-10 14:19 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-10 16:37 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-11 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 11:49 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-10 14:05 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-12-10 15:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-10 16:05 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-10 17:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-11 6:09 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-11 6:04 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-11 11:10 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-12 5:34 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-12 6:37 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-12 10:08 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-12 15:23 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-12 17:07 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-12-13 4:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-13 5:20 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-13 9:54 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-13 22:59 ` Tim Cross [this message]
2020-12-14 0:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-14 0:54 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-14 4:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-14 5:45 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-15 5:44 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-14 10:03 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-12-14 14:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-14 15:01 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-12-14 15:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-14 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-14 0:16 ` Stephen Leake
2020-12-13 4:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-13 8:56 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2020-12-14 5:50 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-14 6:45 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-12 13:48 ` Michael Albinus
2020-12-12 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-12 15:37 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-12 19:54 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-12 20:46 ` Stephen Leake
2020-12-12 21:24 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-12-12 21:48 ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-13 0:39 ` Tim Cross
2020-12-13 1:28 ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-13 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-13 4:58 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-12 21:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-12-13 4:58 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-13 5:27 ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-12 19:33 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-12 21:24 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-12-13 4:59 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-13 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-14 17:38 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-14 18:49 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2020-12-14 22:13 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-14 19:10 ` Boruch Baum
2020-12-14 22:17 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-16 5:32 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 5:03 ` Boruch Baum
2020-12-10 5:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-10 6:39 ` "Open records", "good government principles", "corporate culture" Boruch Baum
2020-12-10 7:27 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-10 14:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-11 6:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-10 6:54 ` non-gnu elpa issue tracking Jean Louis
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CAC=50j__mG6K8c3Q2X6n7t9382vYGZ1naq_H4nuN4OeL4vq4aw@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=theophilusx@gmail.com \
--cc=akrl@sdf.org \
--cc=boruch_baum@gmx.com \
--cc=bugs@gnu.support \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=rms@gnu.org \
--cc=stefankangas@gmail.com \
--cc=thibaut.verron@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).