From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU ELPA package discoverability Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 10:21:47 +1000 Message-ID: References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> <83blmdxus4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000090f6dd05a66df79b" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="75000"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 02:22:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jd0tG-000JQ7-Se for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 02:22:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56840 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd0tE-0005e5-0G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 20:22:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32872) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd0sU-0004lr-86 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 20:22:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]:40196) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd0sT-0006lD-6K; Sun, 24 May 2020 20:22:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id d26so12650899otc.7; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oNTzMrKyo1tf8WOmDqq63k/LoHn1J7VPM/oNIAtcgAA=; b=ZWIrCPn3TUP5uYJKqM2qOgZ0qe84jw01gqbW9IeiQcLwA++HPFOpY8fQrbtlIngnps eKk1ECJHj+GfRQCPhY8iyNagXFLUXNzJJMN04NpTfRTQd2lm6sG4wt9YAgxQe54Fc0u1 oQDEKakxGT0N/6ftJcvymvez1YZzmUA0qyv0iVDFIhDMr3OeUiTOxPoA6a8wSaeiQ5Me Inky8/ckXHsA/vzm5qhcKlUmgtoUL54UKDW96Vdd1dahdSWIDlOLOqqgu34ENH1N2+v9 52tK0f0AsyBx8HVQB8cw0Tqu7j4mbrwd1dvETEMq281FyvPL+37FEfdi+yezKPOXjhTp NDfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oNTzMrKyo1tf8WOmDqq63k/LoHn1J7VPM/oNIAtcgAA=; b=G8kONwkumnPxSMiDoZZQdVTgdCU440NSRLGwzCI7j/dlA8oaqj45wjUljZtZRMwKPs 9c7cPstgSGsw8jwxROHXYXzSmyxEpu+xZ9Y0m/gJ9fElQ/OTrGi3a/OboF/OJuQPevUn l4qWVxjo9IQknB6bdiblK1SUugkfinuIKnNyCK8uX4i/llxpNs1Qfiq81YFj1jeWGDQi EG5uOHtO1/pSMixQkfnspGrte5+gPZFVy768ELfKY+sHLC1o2PFLKkMkhrokzjmPIhpd UBXdROAZt5hi1/blXEYWsKe9SjQa2axtlsY38Xo60extTTgfuZZ9J+Jq4AWf29hOhTLN 3uGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533HGVkL365dwhQHW7GA7uk31MrIXKW5cTP+HMETh5ww8tG1o+eF CydFACUjtQ2iyw626AvpKXP7xDTSQdc1EacwRsOQaw/c X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzolHjaMMobYR+drO9SFkFqfzjiuh69dCipDnn6Z2G9stCBrMQcCCDskVrjUCowg6SVm/H9l66S/2fJwbxqb+E= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:66c6:: with SMTP id t6mr18510008otm.56.1590366118670; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:21:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83blmdxus4.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::331; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x331.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251336 Archived-At: --00000000000090f6dd05a66df79b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 00:38, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Tim Cross > > Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 19:15:46 +1000 > > Cc: Emacs developers > > > > Define guidelines to help developers decide where is the best location > for their library, module, extension > > etc. After reading these guidelines, a developer should be confident > they now know what is the appropriate > > location for their code. > > > > I think this is a common question developers would ask themselves. > > Aren't these questions answered in ELPA's README? > No it doesn't. It does answer some of them, but not others (and is probably not the right place to answer some of them). The ELPA README is certainly a start with respect to basic workflow. Information which it lacks that a new developer may want to know or which needs clarification includes - Who can get push permission to the ELPA git repository? - How do you request push permission? - The README is a little weak on process when you don't have push permission - The instructions re: email to emacs-devel for package developers who do not have push permission does not indicate how to provide the package sources/updates. It says that someone will push it for you, but if you don't have push permission to the git repo, how do you get your code in there to begin with? The README does provide reasonable details for someone who has push rights to the ELPA repository. However, there is a lack of detail for anyone who does ot have push rights and nothing about who can get push rights or the process to obtain them. (there is also a problem of scale and security with this model). The README does state you can add an external repository, which is probably one model that could scale better than providing developers with push rights. I was quite surprised to see this given all the debate surrounding pull requests given that the same basic technique is how pull requests work. I was even more surprised to see around 80 of these external packages are hosted on github given all the discussions about github being evil. Around 30% of the packages in ELPA list github as their homepage with the URL: tag.Response to Eli re ELPA README Questions about what can/should go into ELPA, what should be included in Emacs core and what cannot go into ELPA are not addressed at all (the README is probably not the right place for this information) -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --00000000000090f6dd05a66df79b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 00:38, Eli Zar= etskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
<= /div>
> From: Tim Cross= <theophilusx= @gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 19:15:46 +1000
> Cc: Emacs developers <Emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
>=C2=A0 Define guidelines to help developers decide where is the best lo= cation for their library, module, extension
> etc. After reading these guidelines, a developer should be confident t= hey now know what is the appropriate
> location for their code.
>
> I think this is a common question developers would ask themselves.

Aren't these questions answered in ELPA's README?

No it doesn't. It does answer= some of them, but not others (and is probably not
the right place to an= swer some of them).

The ELPA README is certainly a start with respec= t to basic workflow. Information
which it lacks that a new developer may= want to know or which needs
clarification includes

- Who can get= push permission to the ELPA git repository?
- How do you request push p= ermission?
- The README is a little weak on process when you don't h= ave push permission
- The instructions re: email to emacs-devel for pack= age developers who do not
=C2=A0 have push permission does not indicate = how to provide the package
=C2=A0 sources/updates. It says that someone = will push it for you, but if you
=C2=A0 don't have push permission t= o the git repo, how do you get your code in there
=C2=A0 to begin with?<= br>
The README does provide reasonable details for someone who has push = rights to
the ELPA repository. However, there is a lack of detail for an= yone who does ot
have push rights and nothing about who can get push rig= hts or the process to
obtain them. (there is also a problem of scale and= security with this model).

The README does state you can add an ext= ernal repository, which is probably one
model that could scale better th= an providing developers with push rights. I was
quite surprised to see t= his given all the debate surrounding pull requests given
that the same b= asic technique is how pull requests work. I was even more
surprised to s= ee around 80 of these external packages are hosted on github given
all t= he discussions about github being evil. Around 30% of the packages in ELPA<= br>list github as their homepage with the URL: tag.Response to Eli re ELPA = README

Questions about what can/should go into ELPA, what should be = included in Emacs
core and what cannot go into ELPA are not addressed at= all (the README is
probably not the right place for this information)
--
=
regards,

Tim

--Tim Cross

--00000000000090f6dd05a66df79b--