From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar: upstream bug report Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:28:23 +1000 Message-ID: References: <4E19DD79.3030309@swipnet.se> <87fwmd2qo4.fsf@pobox.com> <4E1ACE25.5090000@swipnet.se> <4E1C6E4C.6080405@swipnet.se> <87d3hehgx2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310538541 6435 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2011 06:29:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:29:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 13 08:28:57 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgswJ-00027R-Ey for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:28:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33438 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgswI-0006hJ-0v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 02:28:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:40284) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgsvw-0006gn-QZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 02:28:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgsvt-0005XV-0p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 02:28:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:59374) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgsvo-0005W2-9O; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 02:28:24 -0400 Original-Received: by iyl8 with SMTP id 8so6222248iyl.0 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:28:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a5kwJpTsY0tXjQ2LS1dON5qz1PWbqeQkMqDvp4MrzjA=; b=s2ecxBY/nYTaEkxY4wec4AOrEh83lIObYenTtA2OwOuvaWo1R/L2woEZGxJqrS2V+k pwpiAaPFo3anHdU+QOxNgfWLdtSBKtEyIsgfAiAOcAlK19DBPfkb37IsXZXKVKvOFi3D loua5wx7FRst8I6sbD4B7auPU/8+1/Zh+tWrI= Original-Received: by 10.231.121.140 with SMTP id h12mr700898ibr.101.1310538503179; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.15.3 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:28:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87d3hehgx2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:141995 Archived-At: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:46 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Tim Cross writes: > >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:54 AM, Jan Dj=E4rv wrote: >>> >>> I think they want applications to behave the same, and the Emacs model = is >>> late to the game (for Gtk+). =A0So there is little reason to switch. >> >> My interaction with GTK+ developers supports this as well. There >> appears to be a fairly strong GUI design philosophy underlying GTK+ >> which tries to enforce what they believe are good UI design principals >> and ensure consistency across apps which use the toolkit. > > Consistency may be nice, but not everything is a viewer. > > -- > David Kastrup > I don't necessarily agree with their views on good UI design or even their view of consistency. While emacs developers my try to convince them why different behaviour for a scroll bar would benefit some apps, at the end of the day, it is up to the GTK+ devs to decide if what we are arguing represents a bug, a feature request or an enhancement or just reject it because it does not fit in with their plans/strategy. The opinions of emacs developers are largely irrelevant - we can try to argue the case and we can even disagree with their assessment, but in the end we can only either accept it and move on and continue to support a build based on GTK+ or reject it and drop support for it. Anything else is largely irrelevant. Tim