From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU ELPA package discoverability Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 15:37:31 +1000 Message-ID: References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be7c0105a67260fb" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="14017"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 07:38:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jd5oX-0003ZN-Kr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 07:38:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56418 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd5oW-0002ww-Kj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 01:38:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54366) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd5o2-0002WX-LN for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 01:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::232]:46781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd5o1-00006g-DH; Mon, 25 May 2020 01:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x232.google.com with SMTP id b3so15113971oib.13; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WRUzVhdr9BsXwBpP9Evjifjfnln3xS6Ogi1vB5JVs40=; b=TUqJLjFVuypzR3Vgss0zazLCMDHK9xHVRCLJicdGQySOdIRWXMaRVmumT2+m3uC4c2 ULA2CvLibjoMSQuFkduD+j/y3Wi4bWuaPNXnLFFTQ/dEaYMHMt4Xtjj6YR3JwSOjUiM1 YFZdLk3YCm+8rBkscSGGuHsxwZ3qsYCWrKNNn7/TEK+sxI+metKMDWsXUWVK4nRj/68v tsBnEZfkxFr8xCWrwgi4DRz0+eq1O7GeAgwZfY2e7YEKbDfQqVUTuVfVJNhycbFcuLE+ QIBDcr1ol1RgPNYgHth2KLB/oIw/NMrdBdJI1zr2dtYGeVopxBRAbxbruBgj4X2Ptmw6 RNdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WRUzVhdr9BsXwBpP9Evjifjfnln3xS6Ogi1vB5JVs40=; b=J6tuw4uwLGG09m1gR7NGs5yfy4/N8RKKekTR+J0zcWjtMnt92HCVwsQLAvRyyVQv75 zF9QRMstkzv72va/AiwQ/K/qmN+mwN4uVjoFJ+lKrz3itHscLERYdA1BP3jkKmvzYi8p V5GjUbxGL7KbkVwftt6o+5nY/IglF616JfkduccM/x9aEAbN4oEJfO/Dhecl9owXrcvh Ty9Z6Ys9v/sIT2to/tEWOSFEeVKfkPi+n2ReVhjzQkAomNauVsB6HzOHGAPkU5Z70d8C wNuKIPKGrFv7We9UcazSF8/MhxqZgufXVP41n1hUV8EFjcIxx9bROWA4rjORnGi0l89V kJyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530luqJJZ+Toyh8UD/7Gm/9J6VQmsedfuFYzU22FHHuoL7xhnHUS V3GuOgrkb7QrT6t0Wn9nHI5xcrA0TMJQOlR5FB189A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIRoKtoJebCUFRP98EjEyi2H98fh5/AlHCW9g2jZpX02d99gFS4nKOG+BF4wdHhuQpilXUNqJ96/NaBN5C8fs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:60a:: with SMTP id y10mr8927802oih.47.1590385063130; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:37:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::232; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x232.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251348 Archived-At: --000000000000be7c0105a67260fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 14:36, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Yes, but more specifically, what are the goals of ELPA (and the > proposed > > ELPA without copyright assignment)? How are these to fit into the GNU > Emacs > > eco-system? > > For us, the question is how they fit into the GNU Project and with its > goals of freedom. However, most of the specific questions you brought > up are mostly practical. > > You posed one question has an answer that comes from a nontechnical basis: > > > What about platforms - do packages need to support all > > the same platforms that Emacs supports? > > Each package, and each feature in each package, must support the GNU > system, and in particular GNU/Linux. Support for any other systems, > including Windows and MacOS, is optional. > > That seems clear and makes sense. > The rest of these questions you posed are purely practical. > > > What should go into ELPA, what should go into Emacs 'core'? How > > will these ELPA archives work with GNU Emacs releases? (e.g. Do the > > packages in these archives need to be compliant with new release, such > as > > not using functions flagged obsolete, using updated versions of > > libs/modules in emacs core etc). Will an Emacs release be held up if > there > > is a package in ELPA that does not work with new version? When can > packages > > be updated and what backwards compatibility with older versions of > Emacs > > should they support? ... for the archive where copyright is > > assigned to the FSF, who is responsible for maintenance and updates? > When > > should packages be removed? > > and the Emacs developers (talking with this list) > can work out good practical answers. > I think getting some initial answers/position on some of these could help. For the type of packages we would like under a GNU managed archive, we need to make that processes as easy and straight-forward as possible for both the developers and those who perform critical maintenance processes. I'm willing to try and assist here if possible. As a starting point, would it be worthwhile starting some discussion threads in emacs-devel for each question. I could then try and collate the responses into a single document which could be a starting point. For example, I would probably start with the question "What criteria should we use to determine if a module, library, feature etc go into GNU Emacs core, or GNU ELPA? What do others think? I could also have a thread asking for questions which should be answered or things which should be documented with respect to ELPA. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --000000000000be7c0105a67260fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 14:36, Richard= Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
=
[[[ To any NSA and = FBI agents reading my email: please consider=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > Yes, but more specifically, what are the goals of ELPA (and the= proposed
=C2=A0 > ELPA without copyright assignment)? How are these to fit into t= he GNU Emacs
=C2=A0 > eco-system?

For us, the question is how they fit into the GNU Project and with its
goals of freedom.=C2=A0 However, most of the specific questions you brought=
up are mostly practical.

You pose= d one question has an answer that comes from a nontechnical basis:

=C2=A0 > What about platforms - do packages need to support all
=C2=A0 > the same platforms that Emacs supports?

Each package, and each feature in each package, must support the GNU
system, and in particular GNU/Linux.=C2=A0 Support for any other systems, including Windows and MacOS, is optional.

That seems clear and makes sense.=C2=A0
=C2= =A0
The rest of these questions you posed are purely practical.

=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 What should go into ELPA, what should go into Emacs '= core'? How
=C2=A0 > will these ELPA archives work with GNU Emacs releases? (e.g. Do= the
=C2=A0 > packages in these archives need to be compliant with new releas= e, such as
=C2=A0 > not using functions flagged obsolete, using updated versions of=
=C2=A0 > libs/modules in emacs core etc). Will an Emacs release be held = up if there
=C2=A0 > is a package in ELPA that does not work with new version? When = can packages
=C2=A0 > be updated and what backwards compatibility with older versions= of Emacs
=C2=A0 > should they support? ... for the archive where copyright is
=C2=A0 > assigned to the FSF, who is responsible for maintenance and upd= ates? When
=C2=A0 > should packages be removed?

and the Emacs developers (talking with this list)
can work out good practical answers.

I = think getting some initial answers/position on some of these could help. Fo= r the type of packages we would like under a GNU managed archive, we need t= o make that processes as easy and straight-forward as possible for both the= developers and those who perform critical maintenance processes.=C2=A0

I'm willing to try and assist here if possible. A= s a starting point, would it be worthwhile starting some discussion threads= in emacs-devel for each question. I could then try and collate the respons= es into a single document which could be a starting point. For example, I w= ould probably start with the question "What criteria should we use to = determine if a module, library, feature etc go into GNU Emacs core, or GNU = ELPA?=C2=A0

What do others think? I could also hav= e a thread asking for questions which should be answered or things which sh= ould be documented with respect to ELPA.=C2=A0=C2=A0

--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)




--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

--000000000000be7c0105a67260fb--