From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU ELPA package discoverability Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 13:52:37 +1000 Message-ID: References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> <83blmdxus4.fsf@gnu.org> <831rn8vy6o.fsf@gnu.org> <83lflevju7.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a775c05a6992520" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="58510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 27 05:53:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdn8I-000F7f-W0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:53:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59334 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdn8H-0002CY-Vl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 23:53:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdn7c-0001Ll-O7 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 23:52:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]:39094) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdn7b-0004jr-K6; Tue, 26 May 2020 23:52:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id s198so20627016oie.6; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:52:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xjwQS80jrVoGyx/SZJ9HWfZm//nv459xQkntnbZz+UA=; b=Qtc7ZmFtjbFXUj9/c5/DojLrZrwXUfkCmaiTYp1SLlCORLfd3AfrHReZoBr+Rtgla0 8Yjp/3s3Xe5fnwGmmA4XkkI9uqzy7Zh64ZmL247RyTnJw3pDaYTqf9GcgwgS1G9yauf+ p58MTbpg0cP9fuzB1qIG9lYysANNVDCFbiWiIFiX6BzPLQxSeex6AhrlBDp5JOEqHzZC WrAGr794NSYEXRfq6dzihSj/L/fUO/Sf487emL0JpKqLhFVjKYOD/DKxwnraTBCjqUwK jZXLS9xrDgZ107bW5aVaYem6t9Y6ZYI8Qqc/iSK0532s2kfrg7Oa5oZgLvZQXIrzTEbc jqYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xjwQS80jrVoGyx/SZJ9HWfZm//nv459xQkntnbZz+UA=; b=oE98nIiDMMYyz9LF0gX4lh1Z4AvnBAYxFWmQtdLrja/7QBRyGqkdW4NG5Ri3eIQtar 5oPUQp/XkB19QWtojuBcBxQ2dtQ3yucKRfwvqcETRVYvMkY/agOstjzJkUUpa1SI6Uxy X/9u3Z86VuyS1anU5Z7eu0re/gH9+GzmqGe84Vu7cwd2Bl6YvHSNni5m9i0upMCv+u8P jhT9SY596MJ6cnjdR/v/KifNg5sNm9ChnQoH5ebnINCwg0tYMkNl9y65DLq1Jw0u20Zv Ogmlcd0KAzx9ZY9mCV03y9aHg9tjIeVgsOM8XA5JsZA36hHK0Ff+cmY31bC2P+gG9i7C nsAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530wTwp065IkZx95NDtBan6Mn5XZrHUmamFiAuWyU68w97Jqi80v IVZZ0Mn6Op5iI5jIgv7+N1sgRz3VgbmFCYQQG4Sjcv9T X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJya6YN9KovXEc71Ska5uVNUOQ6IXztedy3yD2tIw3Zs+M4+rIQZ3u+vfW0Vo3gfrDvtwDCv/JqioOUPof81jUc= X-Received: by 2002:aca:58c5:: with SMTP id m188mr1331504oib.171.1590551569396; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:52:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x22f.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251492 Archived-At: --0000000000004a775c05a6992520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 13:19, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Except it isn't. There is nothing in the README about how to obtain > > write/push rights to the repository or that it is the same rights as > you > > need to add code to the Emacs repository. It also states that if you > don't > > have the necessary rights, someone will do it all for you, but with no > > indication on how to find that someone or provide them with the code. > In a > > single file package, I guess sending the file to emacs-devel might be > > sufficient, but for larger projects that won't work. Relying on > 'someone' > > to do the work is a vague proposition and will often result in a rather > > slow process. > > I agree that we should document how to participate in developing > packages in ELPA. But this is a long term need, not an urgent need. > > Since we are considering a big change in how people would do that, > why document the current system? We may as well change it, get > the new system working well, and document that one. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > I totally agree. I think we should focus on what we want more than what we have. We can then look at the gap between what is and what we want and develop plans to get us from here to there. I do think we need to clarify what should go into ELPA, what should go into Emacs core and what is not compatible with either (I include in ELPA the possible non-copyright assigned repository, even though it may be a completely separate repository). Much of the 'higher level' criteria is known (for example, GPL'd, not rely on or encourage use of non-free software etc) and some has contention (i.e. ELPA v Emacs core). Eli has made reference to a previous proposal, which might be a good staring point if someone has a copy. Once we know how ELPA will be used, we can determine the best way to structure it so that developers can submit new packages for inclusion and maintain these packages such that barriers to developers are minimised while maintaining the level of control the GNU project requires without imposing too much additional burden on those who volunteer to help maintain the repository. Overall object would likely be something along the lines of making GNU ELPA a viable first choice for appropriate packages over MELPA. -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --0000000000004a775c05a6992520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 13:19, Richard= Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
=
[[[ To any NSA and = FBI agents reading my email: please consider=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > Except it isn't. There is nothing in the README about how t= o obtain
=C2=A0 > write/push rights to the repository or that it is the same righ= ts as you
=C2=A0 > need to add code to the Emacs repository. It also states that i= f you don't
=C2=A0 > have the necessary rights, someone will do it all for you, but = with no
=C2=A0 > indication on how to find that someone or provide them with the= code. In a
=C2=A0 > single file package, I guess sending the file to emacs-devel mi= ght be
=C2=A0 > sufficient, but for larger projects that won't work. Relyin= g on 'someone'
=C2=A0 > to do the work is a vague proposition and will often result in = a rather
=C2=A0 > slow process.

I agree that we should document how to participate in developing
packages in ELPA.=C2=A0 But this is a long term need, not an urgent need.
Since we are considering a big change in how people would do that,
why document the current system?=C2=A0 We may as well change it, get
the new system working well, and document that one.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)



I totally agree. I think we shoul= d focus on what we want more than what we have. We can then look at the gap= between what is and what we want and develop plans to get us from here to = there.=C2=A0

I do think we need to clarify what sh= ould go into ELPA, what should go into Emacs core and what is not compatibl= e with either (I include in ELPA the possible non-copyright assigned reposi= tory, even though it may be a completely separate repository). Much of the = 'higher level' criteria is known (for example, GPL'd, not rely = on or encourage use of non-free software etc) and some has contention (i.e.= ELPA v Emacs core). Eli has made reference to a previous proposal, which m= ight be a good staring point if someone has a copy.=C2=A0 Once we know how = ELPA will be used, we can determine the best way to structure it so that de= velopers can submit new packages for inclusion and maintain these packages = such that barriers to developers are minimised while maintaining the level = of control the GNU project requires without imposing too much additional bu= rden on those who volunteer to help maintain the repository. Overall object= would likely be something along the lines of making GNU ELPA a viable firs= t choice for appropriate packages over MELPA.=C2=A0


--
regards,

Tim

--<= /div>Tim Cross

--0000000000004a775c05a6992520--