From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: init_system_name fqdn? Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 13:45:18 +1000 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11423ba00921b705521fbb1e" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497671163 11311 195.159.176.226 (17 Jun 2017 03:46:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 03:46:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Ken Olum Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 17 05:45:57 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dM4gO-0002XH-WD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Jun 2017 05:45:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33258 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dM4gT-0002NO-Oh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 23:46:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36996) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dM4fp-0002NF-BZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 23:45:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dM4fo-0000O6-21 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 23:45:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]:36241) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dM4fn-0000Nc-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 23:45:19 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id u19so82709344qta.3 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:45:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=w4ld6MC0EgXouT3lzG2N8Xr7coEOcRtzgUtVM2vM7HM=; b=OEmaLByzggYq9vyqenmUyYSUfSXM6v5qdcatFWCs31FSbpcHCmNySgIh1Qb5H4lZ2m HIpHnV2UvDd439nkKINaQUmPNj/dzmMrLjooMDQTShDDReka/T4f6Ao1BmqD2U1MVYGO MGi/eAhErhykt2/krJpubn7g2f/HhqyrKYcMEFL1bEnq8xxZegh0LIokAVI6T/hXdwfV V5iyqUb+Fdxhi8wlAYV5BCSA8o4d6Zq0njOqlkCKsZynHQ2UsIj5ruZVTlF7/VhjFhLr OZDx8u87OV647S3MbrxpHJI901tWfBqR4QC46iKNFss47uetxbZYbFuhqLKUTkvzgIyk 0OGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w4ld6MC0EgXouT3lzG2N8Xr7coEOcRtzgUtVM2vM7HM=; b=S5ak/mpZxl4Jb+hhix0cot86NzHQd7/GU7VtB4JL1/yCE3Pazhnc8rlzkQdDudt4iN Kgmqj8kBaTTZGbdEbbVlbdBCLNFPszev4lyHHmwxcP9tnObFacK6VWGMRZl1GU7wAAjF ZL+WAwYCEwctDR2grjEHc2a4xNXBnVzmdqMjiyOrOgauuz49ol1WBUSOuLHSUjK2/meB 0HTNiyqxr3IE0edYMYp89TV4/c04eGc1p2tfVGSaKBdZ6S3byU7UogjAKX+PdQdpFWVd BhXmwVxaHQZqqO3GsGcSQ1U63QeHDyBaEQQijrdMRnD5KiaMU1ijqzuzjWKd5X8D/MIu Sj1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzWPQ3i+LPGZ3uRYs9nArZTLgcQ5RvMgWXqgBs1wBQt5DqbWKqa mzp7bjIVe5AyYmEEvv0pbHSK21317A== X-Received: by 10.237.62.135 with SMTP id n7mr17306391qtf.0.1497671118953; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.200.37.250 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215688 Archived-At: --001a11423ba00921b705521fbb1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm not sure what your expected result is? If the system does not have a fqdn, which is very common, especially with many SOHO users, then what should it be set to if not hostname? I do remember years ago when lots of systems assumed/expected a fqdn. To make things work correctly, you had to define localhost.localdomain as many systems use a test along the lines of "has at least 2 components in the domain name". My current home machine, with a pretty much default Ubuntu setup has a hostname of tim-desktop. If I use hostname -f it is still tim-desktop because this machine does not have a fqdn - I don't have a real domain name, so cannot have a real fqdn. If I did, the system would be configured accordingly and hostname -f wold return the fqdn. Is your concern that even when you have a system setup with a fqdn that emacs is still only using the hostname part i.e. not hostname -f? If so, yes, this is probably incorrect. On the other hand, if you are concerned about the fact that if the system does not have a fqdn, you don't get a 'real' email address (or at least one which looks real, but may have no MX)? If so, I don't think this is something emacs can really do much about and at least an obvious 'bad address' is better as it may alert the user to the problem. Yes, this does mean that when you do emacs -Q on a system without a fqdn, and then try to send a bug report, the address is incorrect, but that is probably the least of your problems. The email is unlikely to be sent as the system is unlikely to have a correctly configure MTA. If it does, it probably should be configured to re-write the from address to be whatever mailhob/smarthost the system uses anyway. I recall a number of threads in the past about this issue and suggestions to do things like change bug reporting to use a web service instead of relying on email. However, most of these alternative solutions either added additional complexity or required additional infrastructure which someone would have to maintain. From memory, managing the additional infrastructure to provide a web service for bug reports and ensuring it was secure and not susceptible to spam/abuse was the real issue. At the end of the day, I don't think being able to send email correctly from emacs -Q is anything Emacs can reliably solve. However, it isn't a big issue - I've found it pretty easy to just select the message, copy it into my mail client and send it that way. From memory, I think there is even some text in the bug report template warning about this and what to do. On 17 June 2017 at 04:10, Ken Olum wrote: > From: Yuri Khan > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:33:05 +0700 > > > Many systems are configured without a fully qualified hostname. > > Even if they are, they are not likely to be able to receive email at > their configured FQDN. > > I think the Unix hostname setting has nothing to do with how the system > is configured on the Internet. So the fact that hostname is set to > something with no domain is not relevant to whether users can receive > mail. > > Ken > > -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --001a11423ba00921b705521fbb1e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not sure what your expected result is? If the syst= em does not have a fqdn, which is very common, especially with many SOHO us= ers, then what should it be set to if not hostname?=C2=A0

I do remember years ago when lots of systems assumed/expected a fqdn. To = make things work correctly, you had to define localhost.localdomain as many= systems use a test along the lines of "has at least 2 components in t= he domain name".=C2=A0

My current home machin= e, with a pretty much default Ubuntu setup has a hostname of tim-desktop. I= f I use hostname -f it is still tim-desktop because this machine does not h= ave a fqdn - I don't have a real domain name, so cannot have a real fqd= n. If I did, the system would be configured accordingly and hostname -f wol= d return the fqdn.=C2=A0

Is your concern that even= when you have a system setup with a fqdn that emacs is still only using th= e hostname part i.e. not hostname -f? If so, yes, this is probably incorrec= t.=C2=A0

On the other hand, if you are concerned a= bout the fact that if the system does not have a fqdn, you don't get a = 'real' email address (or at least one which looks real, but may hav= e no MX)? If so, I don't think this is something emacs can really do mu= ch about and at least an obvious 'bad address' is better as it may = alert the user to the problem.=C2=A0

Yes, this doe= s mean that when you do emacs -Q on a system without a fqdn, and then try t= o send a bug report, the address is incorrect, but that is probably the lea= st of your problems. The email is unlikely to be sent =C2=A0as the system i= s unlikely to have a correctly configure MTA. If it does, it probably shoul= d be configured to re-write the from address to be whatever mailhob/smartho= st the system uses anyway.=C2=A0

I recall a number= of threads in the past about this issue and suggestions to do things like = change bug reporting to use a web service instead of relying on email. Howe= ver, most of these alternative solutions either added additional complexity= or required additional infrastructure which someone would have to maintain= . From memory, managing the additional infrastructure to provide a web serv= ice for bug reports and ensuring it was secure and not susceptible to spam/= abuse was the real issue.=C2=A0

At the end of the = day, I don't think being able to send email correctly from emacs -Q is = anything Emacs can reliably solve. However, it isn't a big issue - I= 9;ve found it pretty easy to just select the message, copy it into my mail = client and send it that way. From memory, I think there is even some text i= n the bug report template warning about this and what to do.=C2=A0



=
On 17 June 2017 at 04:10, Ken Olum <= kdo@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0From: Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:33:05 +0700

=C2=A0 =C2=A0> Many systems are configured without a fully qualified hos= tname.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Even if they are, they are not likely to be able to receive em= ail at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0their configured FQDN.

I think the Unix hostname setting has nothing to do with how the sys= tem
is configured on the Internet.=C2=A0 So the fact that hostname is set to something with no domain is not relevant to whether users can receive
mail.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ken




--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

--001a11423ba00921b705521fbb1e--