From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: non-gnu elpa issue tracking Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:54:41 +1100 Message-ID: References: <20201209125516.lenqswi7fhiscbr2@E15-2016.optimum.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000febb2305b662166e" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35750"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis , Richard Stallman , thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Boruch Baum , Emacs developers , Stefan Kangas , Andrea Corallo To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 14 01:57:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kocAf-0009BV-SV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:57:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38574 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kocAe-0006AQ-SM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 19:57:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35662) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koc8h-0004F5-8I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 19:54:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]:43088) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koc8b-0002AE-Vz; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 19:54:58 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id q25so14173757otn.10; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:54:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3/b9jo3UeOmrtFxFav0oonUmhWohuRZRy0kuuWpUnNU=; b=eq5+E5qF33OVZpdQYt+2VWsNBqOaxR4RFZ0Hd6aLQGA0mWrOJzhxOSG4qz3CHkBLei wVBYryqemCQgH9TR5ped8cavPkIMqWyjmZfhHW2aC9nhDoRMjq1bh9Wx6nCrGNGAGixH wQ3I47H/3UZTw4Xt/8T/3EZeKVbOO6ae9BSB/7MWWI5mQAM7AITOvJzU5nnPbjo2q4uO /FUNL0F0NA+J0wK9bnZEX539x9VbN1M+xV0D9d3WN+I3C/F45drFvueUnQKaCCrNI69y SE5hWnBpuM72S6ORPkt+TvPNtzTtJeZYg1DIp/Utx89h3OZcUmpL3x1TGcNiXRFOx+jW 2ZIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3/b9jo3UeOmrtFxFav0oonUmhWohuRZRy0kuuWpUnNU=; b=BAnfbCWXe4YL6oTWxnc0xMlUWQyFhxeQ5zafbStyd7+SHriVxNW2FyVn+1IkLfgKoT 8ueJrs5GCnRytC+ER4gxLXUUYvsKWVvcdkkj8mDkQBiMPug2yf1GFaUlX1BavYZXiywt QbYzK/0dudG7BC9RFTgSVmtoQ0fF6Q+xJXg/j8jMr09h9hAUtLsMmcb8IJSD9HQpWJmX hF7VyDY8d4u4AzDnEh/dSwBnSimdBn2yQ2b2SJhQkKp6gHgtbRoy/gGF2SBcN6LghGVD mCcLuPySts8+j1nfITed3YTJA1ttONY+ybp1KprpWjibUfb78BdZMw56Kl0l5iT8kqvT MOjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LBJOdl/Lzouv8wyv3uye1w4TVcWTE6KdHckBbbBJX7vSlZT02 LG3Q+goGAPoAPtcbf3RfI0RGDs03YG5OqIhUn7s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2kujT0c3TVWtzjfHnYafAfBz9LdDGK8tormqrlMNs7a8SJd3dDtYSkhuM4UaEnOsN+Hv2PSdVWSzX4aJ19W4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:4c3:: with SMTP id s3mr4415111otd.235.1607907292395; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:54:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::335; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260782 Archived-At: --000000000000febb2305b662166e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 11:33, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > and that list contains the following - > > > > (("ace-window" :external "https://github.com/abo-abo/ace-window") > [...] > > ("ztree" :external "https://github.com/fourier/ztree") > [...] > > I don't have an issue with this, but it does seem inconsistent to argue > > github does not comply with FSF philosophy and guidelines while at the > same > > time using it to maintain code which the FSF holds the copyright for an= d > to > > have references to github as the homepage for the package. > > Correction: the above URLs are reference to the Git repository, not to > the homepage. I know Github conflates the two, but the above URLs are > not advertised to the end user. > > The URL we advertise as "the homepage" on elpa.gnu.org are taken from > the "URL:" pseudo header in the package's main file (i.e. `.el`). > For most (all?) packages hosted on Github, that URL is the same as the > one found in `externals-list` of course but I think the distinction is > important (e.g. we could refrain from including the reference to the > "homepage" on github while keeping the Git reference). > > I'm not sure I get the subtle difference you seem to be referring to. Fro= m my simple end user perspective, I find a package in the list of packages by running M-x list-packages , for example, I have the following in the current list - ack 1.10 available gnu interface to ack-like tools When I move to that line and hit enter, the following window pops up, providing details about this package Package ack is available. Status: Available from gnu -- Install Archive: gnu Version: 1.10 Summary: interface to ack-like tools Homepage: https://github.com/leoliu/ack-el Keywords: tools processes convenience Maintainer: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora Author: Leo Liu This tells me the homepage for this package is on github.com. The repository hosting this package is GNU ELPA, which tells me it is code that is copyright to the FSF. To my uneducated view, this leads me to the assumption that the FSF uses github.com, despite their position regarding ethical software and ethical hosting. --=20 regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --000000000000febb2305b662166e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 11:33, Stefan = Monnier <monnier@iro.umontre= al.ca> wrote:
> and that list contains the following -
>
> (("ace-window" :external "https://github.co= m/abo-abo/ace-window")
[...]
>=C2=A0 ("ztree" :external "https://github.com/fou= rier/ztree")
[...]
> I don't have an issue with this, but it does seem inconsistent to = argue
> github does not comply with FSF philosophy and guidelines while at the= same
> time using it to maintain code which the FSF holds the copyright for a= nd to
> have references to github as the homepage for the package.

Correction: the above URLs are reference to the Git repository, not to
the homepage.=C2=A0 I know Github conflates the two, but the above URLs are=
not advertised to the end user.

The URL we advertise as "the homepage" on elpa.gnu.org are taken fr= om
the "URL:" pseudo header in the package's main file (i.e. `&l= t;pkg>.el`).
For most (all?) packages hosted on Github, that URL is the same as the
one found in `externals-list` of course but I think the distinction is
important (e.g. we could refrain from including the reference to the
"homepage" on github while keeping the Git reference).

I'm not sure I get the subtle difference you seem to be = referring to. From my simple end user perspective, I find a package in the = list of packages by running M-x list-packages , for example, I have the fol= lowing in the current list -

=C2=A0ack =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01.10 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0available =C2=A0gnu =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interface to ack-l= ike tools

When I move to that lin= e and hit enter, the following window pops up, providing details about this= package

Package ack is available.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Status: Available f= rom gnu -- Install
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Archive: gnu
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Version: = 1.10
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Summary: interface to ack-like tools
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= Homepage: https://github.com/l= eoliu/ack-el
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Keywords: tools processes convenience
= =C2=A0Maintainer: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Author: Leo Li= u <sdl.web@gmail.com>
This tells me the homepage for this packa= ge is on github.com. The repository hosti= ng this package is GNU ELPA, which tells me it is code that is copyright to= the FSF. To my uneducated view, this leads me to the assumption that the F= SF uses github.com, despite their positio= n regarding ethical software and ethical hosting.=C2=A0


--
regards,

Tim

<= div>--
Tim Cross

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