From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:32:15 +1000 Message-ID: References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048e78105a3b08c36" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="42227"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien_Gendre?= , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 20 05:33:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQNBm-000AvH-Sk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:33:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56712 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQNBl-0001lj-JE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:33:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32872 helo=eggs1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQNAe-0000a0-WF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:32:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs1p.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQNAa-00049h-Mw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:32:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x336.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::336]:32914) by eggs1p.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQNAa-00048i-9m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:32:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x336.google.com with SMTP id j26so6892918ots.0 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:32:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ML43FtbYyHikBlAO45RhX3fZaawsbciv0oMQzlqzSi8=; b=PxTGLgw2VGnu+txLWohdkYeJHfMSU6mcrSp/I3Y/kCtqzcX6yV/Y5D0dY+qOnzKoQz VsYBlfoW1SehikzDKoyPROZ2CfzStjmHdy4HvQs/92zqgTMo7vMZpA7DXMtRDfkBSZ9I l0NFstibEE+leBCrh+EeAKGre/xCIRQuEpNquooAPNg4aA+B4gB+rN1NYfD2NObrDSn1 y2MT1K88FSZmGbw1Fs+li0bbV7cuXFUTSJcGXeifsxZPDj1ZuOu3eov4qTwXP8XStD28 mRRqjgSqxdfHqVWPzo5Nxv8bjadg3lk0hLyrWzO7AssOifIdQ4cssrfgaoOOhVuNTEwL VA0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ML43FtbYyHikBlAO45RhX3fZaawsbciv0oMQzlqzSi8=; b=VWfNSHemyVIrtvKi7CnvK+w83tREuqGGm8hewLeqYMd2wUzLxlH55/Q/PReGv8g76Y DAMhmIVJC8QRwlXj8sHmLKazL4FFOiJvT4clo9yg1krL7uoy6OLTd6H9kkAVgYfG+n5M XbKttIcRKpGNQcCxL/IWHAcYdkJmVwE12SPBcvnEaVXrQyqc9R6r2lrWRK5FcPLFbzZ/ EB+4ABjR53FU5NIEX+sQN7fX7pUEtE0v4ZQ9F7lRMMmh0oHaEE7sziak4ey6IXitWaIN akWpfF5gbBNHax7VbilpKd033QUzjdHsT6eft94RgC+vH8y2n3YNl1CCyhYbG5AR2qIE n2mg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubZf+ZoJxA0gggkE4LutlMrFW0/IxnF6DeAr+oF1pcD3KxlQeYy tIkahiCBsbpAUJyhxs66gvOxSPt9UKj9D75uiaekToKr X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKw4arKD5kcA6X5lq6aOd8lcvt47ZVhdJuD8Ont1MD/bJAZ3l/w2/XhvhJQkIAGRnRDdgsQdN0exiAsp+frqR0= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1786:: with SMTP id j6mr7633182otj.235.1587353546711; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:32:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::336; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x336.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs1p.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::336 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247356 Archived-At: --00000000000048e78105a3b08c36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How will any of this differ from the many existing canned default setups already available? In fact, given the limitation on only using Emacs built-in packages, is it even possible to do a setup which is even close to some of these canned setups, many of which appear to be targeted at new users (spacemacs, doom, prelude, etc). Are we just talking about a GNU canned configuration? On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 10:37, Stefan Kangas wrote: > S=C3=A9bastien Gendre writes: > > > For these 4 use-cases, we can simply provide 2 flavors of Emacs: > > - Emacs: With all the 2020 features, a modern interface, all needed > > modern features to start coding with most popular languages and easy > > to use for basic usages > > - Emacs Vanilla: All the new features are still there, but deactivate > > to not break anything > > I'm personally not against the idea of having a separate backwards > compatibility mode. > > But I guess we would need to pull in several third-party packages to > have a modern "batteries included" Emacs. AFAIK, that is > unfortunately not possible given the copyright assignment requirement. > But perhaps a default "modern" mode could be a bit less ambitious. > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas > > --=20 regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --00000000000048e78105a3b08c36 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How will any of this differ from the many existing canned = default setups already available? In fact, given the limitation on only usi= ng Emacs built-in packages, is it even possible to do a setup which is even= close to some of these canned setups, many of which appear to be targeted = at new users (spacemacs, doom, prelude, etc). Are we just talking about a G= NU canned configuration?

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 10:37, Stefan Kangas &= lt;stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
S=C3=A9bastien Gen= dre <seb@k-7.ch> = writes:

> For these 4 use-cases, we can simply provide 2 flavors of Emacs:
> - Emacs: With all the 2020 features, a modern interface, all needed >=C2=A0 =C2=A0modern features to start coding with most popular language= s and easy
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to use for basic usages
> - Emacs Vanilla: All the new features are still there, but deactivate<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0to not break anything

I'm personally not against the idea of having a separate backwards
compatibility mode.

But I guess we would need to pull in several third-party packages to
have a modern "batteries included" Emacs.=C2=A0 AFAIK, that is unfortunately not possible given the copyright assignment requirement.
But perhaps a default "modern" mode could be a bit less ambitious= .

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas



--
regards,

Tim=

--
Tim Cross

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