From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mathias Dahl Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Patch for emacs/basic.texi Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:35:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f546d05af90b7df" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35426"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 18 08:37:42 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJA1e-00097j-Cg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:37:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55168 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJA1d-0005m7-Bg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 02:37:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJA0B-0004ul-0S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 02:36:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x931.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::931]:42126) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJA07-0005XX-IM; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 02:36:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x931.google.com with SMTP id w23so1506288uam.9; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tIF95ElF04JK5Msl+91/ySuB8lK3FEdkfmXopFfuGIM=; b=IcpSPzn4oNnInzgETmtP8XA9NDK5PTlCUoD2nqz2FHi+FOtIWlaBh5JeX57DRi+67C 4ZZlZDS857sA9o8AsqgOAZhvqMy9mEdFP+5rULUjkx9T9ZgO552Y8wXp2Ggway+t+YtM 7GfY2AM2AZFVVWtFHOOVNr/SvmuYRt7LE2Zf3S5GVcCLG2Sz+mJEl7gQD48yktDIGl+M VCp1s54z1tjDP5EiQB0WZ9NAd3odigqvvlRsF1/lWNrwWKnuPbFSH8Z0kC3uQl+lhL89 rZ54sS+uqgKo89mNah6whuZt7Kgc978GEuHK4cJ6JEsn3DhSN7MlmTFmfIivdyMBeKRG 5bUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tIF95ElF04JK5Msl+91/ySuB8lK3FEdkfmXopFfuGIM=; b=kTjUxI/dBM7ZMt9lfwwXJQTfvTsEZja51y9DLQ3JVdAzYpzJRcSUoKbuxcwdU13HKM kSRaNR/toXJFIDHrbRDarWYQavhYHOo2OfWt6QEz8BGPyt6K4wfEYRA6heuyHXb3yPzd lSf6cZwtnEaPHWTyFHZSHtST8ZuMpNUEFa9fEODkX6cpmkhFQzogaGeB5qeuJ9zshoU4 je1Hv8N1++Yrb6N/W1QsWVrofgbovkOri0gA5V1TUaBrgEkLeqWGkblU2ij7ZGwR1arO bSyIHBN23oLvzZ0qAK/k+gdkFYZci/9NwrpDeZ25AyyxSZEHnBxHrj9RQK+Gw0qNCQZh 38dA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530743ISY9+hRcbmIcuU5tW4Ti0SmAufO+dCQbU5j+7VCKQt8N0v 5FcN5AdJGCPPjYVhREJBcK7niNjkYzFFEp2onOs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwhV0+/xTYABd3PPfBzHtbd7AJEpbrJW0qqr33qUacNJ4/8rWc5+2HObKNVLSSTyzdQPNOBzqCEphZ5W4AbTAc= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3013:: with SMTP id h19mr6657410uab.123.1600410964938; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:36:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::931; envelope-from=mathias.dahl@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x931.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256052 Archived-At: --0000000000000f546d05af90b7df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > + On a graphics terminal, the easiest way to invoke @code{undo} is >> > > +with @kbd{C-/}; that doesn't need the shift key. On a text >> terminal, >> > > +@kbd{C-/} does not exist, but usually you can type @kbd{C-_} >> without >> > > +the shift key and it will work anyway. >> > > + >> >> > Does this only make sense with a qwerty keyboard? >> >> I don't think the keyboard _layout_ makes a difference. An ASCII-only >> Dvorak >> keyboard would presumably support the same control characters. >> > On a Swedish keyboard layout, none of the default bindings for undo is as convenient as they are when using an English keyboard QWERTY layout. Regardless of which of the bindings I want to use, I will need to press the Shift key as well as the Control key, or I have to use the "longest" of the bindings (C-x u). Same goes for some other bindings that are very convenient on an English keyboard layout, for example M-/ (dabbrev-expand, requires the Shift key on a Swedish layout, since they placed / on the same key as 7 on the number row). Is this a big problem? Not very. I could rebind these commands if I wanted to, to something that is convenient to me. And I *can* type the default bindings as well, both in GUI and terminal Emacs. --0000000000000f546d05af90b7df Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 > > +=C2=A0 On a graphi= cs terminal, the easiest way to invoke @code{undo} is
=C2=A0 > > +with @kbd{C-/}; that doesn't need the shift key.=C2= =A0 On a text terminal,
=C2=A0 > > +@kbd{C-/} does not exist, but usually you can type @kbd{C= -_} without
=C2=A0 > > +the shift key and it will work anyway.
=C2=A0 > > +

=C2=A0 > Does this only make sense with a qwerty keyboard?

I don't think the keyboard _layout_ makes a difference.=C2=A0 An ASCII-= only Dvorak
keyboard would presumably support the same control characters.

On a Swedish keyboard layo= ut, none of the default bindings for undo is as convenient as they are when= using an English keyboard QWERTY layout. Regardless of which of the bindin= gs I want to use, I will need to press the Shift key as well as the Control= key, or I have to use the "longest" of the bindings (C-x u). Sam= e goes for some other bindings that are very convenient on an English keybo= ard layout, for example M-/ (dabbrev-expand, requires the Shift key on a Sw= edish layout, since they placed / on the same key as 7 on the number row).<= /div>

Is this a big problem? Not very. I could rebind th= ese commands if I wanted to, to something that is convenient to me. And I *= can* type the default bindings as well, both in GUI and terminal Emacs.


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