From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Anders Lindgren Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Nextstep build uses iso-latin by default. WHY? Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:31:26 +0200 Message-ID: References: <56E32A19.7060304@alice.it> <831t7givui.fsf@gnu.org> <20160320151123.GA65516@galloway.idiocy.org> <20160402154513.GA9618@breton.local> <3323FE99-3D82-4A2A-B6B8-1FB7A2A6D66C@iotcl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d0aa0fd133d05306e8eaa X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1460626308 6945 80.91.229.3 (14 Apr 2016 09:31:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:31:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: Toon Claes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 14 11:31:48 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aqdcm-00080R-3G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:31:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35761 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqdck-0001nF-Kh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 05:31:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55268) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqdca-0001DZ-EH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 05:31:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqdcV-0000Rp-Um for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 05:31:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22c]:33771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqdcV-0000Rh-OS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 05:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id k1so102693168vkb.0 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=oFvjN60JnNLHDCcpOH3Nzi8mEyLzNvbLTU4b3wUrGKE=; b=QJmiHl5S17wIUZh2qdi+fhf3oWVAffEjDDFMwb+rMrr6VT7XPQXbWDn9d5gBYfj+0Q HVV0B5wkbYflB+BQ0PyBnpJlaZySTnXQl7vEeOqUm0Sdel57+SfAi7c1VLMQitRTS9Wq 2BpI2GtPji4vMNP1jqbcbqxLRPCMAgwYLeXIDkruAR5F83X+RZfGYjtwK//kXGk1FCS8 nfQExVJtGHd0NpfB3sGvaaSR0kW2I0xd3AY3kTG0MdwdHh48/Y7e/PyWidnWNK2eWPRy Yk+kQhZkaR5H+lys2gi73L/3rkGCubL+WLHHlIEafWSe4O8GTq5CxhwAtDnPt072KyUt 8qwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=oFvjN60JnNLHDCcpOH3Nzi8mEyLzNvbLTU4b3wUrGKE=; b=YB3RzNfP+BsP0c2EEiVBgwj9EpkM6xt6sBTf2t/uXrvlJ350THAZGjBLg8iubdDprd fKe8W9oJ4W27MKB2q3RXP4p1273ggUQ/zW1gGkRfHg0etap8i3Lv35Q5llzIOxgnfGVE xsjTxWrqtgeZqojjXv15bSZ0FcMFfLcl88YMgUy3iK8P42pqrmgpedC1SR2TAT5MwzZ5 +jgX3B7t/nkhrX73UXfV6vQbO9DVEdE+2MaFA+sCuRWihVKXahJpms8b8tJ3Ga4m/830 r2aW7iOteAf7E/TYHUni5OJdxQdTNt9XyJreQG2TCojDJWIRkqYiYVKywYEI++NksljD 8E1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FV3yteoVlL+MmL1gW4vcuiDYz/3p4jwHf7z/nkrFsROh9dYQFV5DwcVPVA61sagwVEE387lmnRsFtpN1g== X-Received: by 10.159.37.137 with SMTP id 9mr6241768uaf.25.1460626287036; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.31.214.131 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:202901 Archived-At: --001a113d0aa0fd133d05306e8eaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi! > > * Add OS X-specific features (while still respecting the FSF policy > > that features should not only be available on non-free systems) > > Well, recently I switched from Railwaycat's Mac port > (at https://github.com/railwaycat/mirror-emacs-mac) to the official > Emacs version (installed using Homebrew). > I never understood why Railwaycat's changes are not merged to the > official repo, but is it because of that FSF policy? > That is only part of the story. But, yes, the "mac" port has more freedom as it's not official FSF software. The "mac" port originates from an Emacs implementation on Mac OS Classic whereas the NS port comes from NextSTEP, before the two were merged with OS X. Amazingly, both are still being actively maintained. Internally, however, they are totally different, the "mac" port is written in C based on the Carbon API, while the NS port is implemented in Objective-C and use the Cocoa API. This makes it hard to simply "merge" a feature fromt the "mac" port to the NS port, and vice versa. I really would like to help make the official Emacs work better on OS X, > but if I understand it correctly, not everything is allowed? > Yes, that is correct. A recent example is that support for fonts with colors has been disabled awaiting it being supported on a free system. However, there are many ways we can make Emacs on OS X better without breaking the FSF policy. But I'll start going through the bugs to see where I can help and so try > to getter a better understanding of the source code. > Welcome aboard! The bug database is hard to navigate -- it's hard to find NS-specific bugs since there is way of tagging a bug as NS- or OS X-specific and the search function doesn't work so well (e.g. searching for "MAC" match every bug containing the word "eMACs"...). I suggest that you start by looking at recent unresolved bugs (like bug#22973) or the issues listed in etc/TODO. Feel free to ask me questions, either directly, or by starting a generic "NS port" thread here at emacs-devel. (In the future, if more people would join, we could have a dedicated NS port mailing list.) -- Anders --001a113d0aa0fd133d05306e8eaa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!
=C2=A0
> * Add OS X-specific = features (while still respecting the FSF policy
> that features should not only be available on non-free systems)

Well, recently I switched from Railwaycat's Mac port (at https://github.com/railwaycat/mirror-emacs-mac= ) to the official
Emacs version (installed using Homebrew).
I never understood why Railwaycat's changes are not merged to the
official repo, but is it because of that FSF policy?

That is only part of the story. But, yes, the &qu= ot;mac" port has more freedom as it's not official FSF software.

The "mac" port originates from an Emacs i= mplementation on Mac OS Classic whereas the NS port comes from NextSTEP, be= fore the two were merged with OS X. Amazingly, both are still being activel= y maintained. Internally, however, they are totally different, the "ma= c" port is written in C based on the Carbon API, while the NS port is = implemented in Objective-C and use the Cocoa API. This makes it hard to sim= ply "merge" a feature fromt the "mac" port to the NS po= rt, and vice versa.


I really would like to help make the official Emacs work better on O= S X,
but if I understand it correctly, not everything is allowed?

Yes, that is correct. A recent example is= that support for fonts with colors has been disabled awaiting it being sup= ported on a free system.

However, there are many w= ays we can make Emacs on OS X better without breaking the FSF policy.
=


But I'll start= going through the bugs to see where I can help and so try
to getter a better understanding of the source code.

Welcome aboard!

The bug = database is hard to navigate -- it's hard to find NS-specific bugs sinc= e there is way of tagging a bug as NS- or OS X-specific and the search func= tion doesn't work so well (e.g. searching for "MAC" match eve= ry bug containing the word "eMACs"...). I suggest that you start = by looking at recent unresolved bugs (like bug#22973) or the issues listed = in etc/TODO.

Feel free to ask me questions, either= directly, or by starting a generic "NS port" thread here at emac= s-devel. (In the future, if more people would join, we could have a dedicat= ed NS port mailing list.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Anders<= /div>

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