From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Jorge Javier Araya Navarro Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: tree-sitter and emacs-devel Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 23:07:52 -0600 Message-ID: References: <83ftdlyhx0.fsf@gnu.org> <86eet56cke.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d3bb305a25be821" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="130989"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: "andres.ramirez" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 03 07:09:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jKEZz-000XyC-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 07:09:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50208 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jKEZy-0006jk-Lw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 01:09:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53673) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jKEZD-0006AH-Qc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 01:08:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jKEZC-0004IO-Hw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 01:08:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]:37882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jKEZC-0004GF-5l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 01:08:30 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id j19so6277776wmi.2 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 22:08:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=esavara-cr.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CXUsyyMtCWAwg7gPyFK0Hv0jZ4LJFpofNBnwI8i9hc0=; b=0BfvsRE6nw1yonayiY7PVqzatXYkeVS3vhF8TNeGK6QoMe+Xa9VrlXUVaDRjbPUt2e CswKawzgLe7Nf2/5ZqLJyamkJLC8t+gRk/+1s/s1xIpZoeTicc7EH1OcSX08zZ3Prbgx VApytarh+tzMTvA16hu2T2dJkJ5nfV6Jp1TSurlbvgmIW7FizkUXQOx+/DC4s0gva214 XEJaj1XmzRoTz/9TLbhq3m6cI0eRnUJvgizKLA13fjF26x15LKcHMKTLVEYlxoFxtYbo ClYTKZiDbfJJbF2vQuCcNh/Z0QXPNKuohrIOl4zao543itAprvmRrkHImd4+spZHehZF +yaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CXUsyyMtCWAwg7gPyFK0Hv0jZ4LJFpofNBnwI8i9hc0=; b=sY7PKAx0i2WkZiPgQDInnEV3XSiUQetZ27/56K9K9mnNsCl5rhmOUV+Q0uPMvpFdmd CO7l1S37DRL+NvnMZGJmc8dhlaxJyp8v3nfm1jHNDdkRoRfYgXm/T6gLeHi5AMmE42Gg vNdrXxbOGQ+aF6gsFa8Rsf8UaQPrjxuy0SaK0drycyW7PFx3kcqM8ZrUsWjAezibHyVV 7cGq7AIy1BkQglXa/Z8eBHrRSkPWUBS9t/dRyxU2pUbGTEikQUMj/EcEpBhkOtsfT1Sh 3Lp8AyU/KB0pExiol3OjdnckmWu/OmniilClzEQwyjBujnzdZY3pFF18wXZC/Gmj9z1f pCPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaJnAdI1rksZvXFzkJTbg8d8llVPFlMaTC6AlLl8rt7nhK0FX9u d/9m7IMpu50C++C5f5/P3cAOOmIGuHOaL1k1m80K+w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKCmtq66uYKmb8ps6MhztgnPEbgBDNO1OoW4DV6PoHZv8tUy4I/8EJZUedz8UxfCeKOD/VAC4cImC6YY6M+4v4= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7216:: with SMTP id n22mr6630392wmc.41.1585890508744; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 22:08:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86eet56cke.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::32f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:246303 Archived-At: --0000000000006d3bb305a25be821 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It can and has for some, but at some point if the people discussing focus too much around what is and is not an early optimization a wrong message can be communicated, as it was pointed out in another thread that maintainers won't help unless volunteers from third-party projects follow to a T their demands. P.S.: didn't notice this thread was titled paraphrasing the one I started (tree-sitter and Emacs), I find funny I didn't notice until now. El jue., 2 de abr. de 2020 a la(s) 11:08, andres.ramirez ( rrandresf@gmail.com) escribi=C3=B3: > >>>>> "Eli" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Stefan Monnier Date: Thu, 02 Apr > >> 2020 12:01:38 -0400 > >> > >> FWIW, re-reading over the discussions around emacs-tree-sitter of > >> the last few days, I must say I'm not proud: if I were a > >> contributor to tree-sitter and/or emacs-tree-sitter, all this > >> squabbling over how tree-sitter "should" work (from people who have > >> not been involved in either of those and don't have any practical > >> experience of how it performs or why it's designed that way) would > >> make me run away screaming and promising myself never to come back > >> to that mad house. > > Eli> I actually think that this discussion brought up several > Eli> important issues and topics (and I don't mean my own messages) > Eli> that should be considered if such technology is to become part of > Eli> Emacs (and I very much hope it will). Yes, there's quite a bit > Eli> of noise, as in any discussion, but that's inevitable. The > Eli> alternative is to invent your own wheel each time, and make all > Eli> the same mistakes. > > Eli> I remember a similar situation on the emacs-bidi mailing list 15 > Eli> years ago when the bidirectional editing support for Emacs was > Eli> just a pipe dream. Many of the ideas expressed there I tossed, > Eli> but some are now part of our implementation, and I'm glad I had > Eli> the opportunity to hear them. I'm also glad that Gerd Moellmann > Eli> was there to provide his perspective on what would and what > Eli> wouldn't be viable, I would have never arrived at the current > Eli> design without his guidance, not without making several grave > Eli> mistakes anyway. > > +1 > > This discussion have bring me food for thought. > > --0000000000006d3bb305a25be821 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It can and has for some, but at some point if the people discussing focu= s too much around what is and is not an early optimization a wrong message = can be communicated, as it was pointed out in another thread that maintaine= rs won't help unless volunteers from third-party projects follow to a T= their demands.

P.S.: didn't notice this thread was titled paraphrasing the one = I started (tree-sitter and Emacs), I find funny I didn't notice until n= ow.

El jue., 2 de abr. de 2020 a la(s) 11:08, andres.ramirez (rrandresf@gmail.com) escribi=C3=B3:<= br>
>>>>= > "Eli" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> Date: Thu, 02 Apr
>> 2020 12:01:38 -0400
>>
>> FWIW, re-reading over the discussions around emacs-tree-sitter of<= br> >> the last few days, I must say I'm not proud: if I were a
>> contributor to tree-sitter and/or emacs-tree-sitter, all this
>> squabbling over how tree-sitter "should" work (from peop= le who have
>> not been involved in either of those and don't have any practi= cal
>> experience of how it performs or why it's designed that way) w= ould
>> make me run away screaming and promising myself never to come back=
>> to that mad house.

Eli> I actually think that this discussion brought up several
Eli> important issues and topics (and I don't mean my own messages)<= br> Eli> that should be considered if such technology is to become part of Eli> Emacs (and I very much hope it will).=C2=A0 Yes, there's quite = a bit
Eli> of noise, as in any discussion, but that's inevitable.=C2=A0 Th= e
Eli> alternative is to invent your own wheel each time, and make all
Eli> the same mistakes.

Eli> I remember a similar situation on the emacs-bidi mailing list 15 Eli> years ago when the bidirectional editing support for Emacs was
Eli> just a pipe dream.=C2=A0 Many of the ideas expressed there I tossed= ,
Eli> but some are now part of our implementation, and I'm glad I had=
Eli> the opportunity to hear them.=C2=A0 I'm also glad that Gerd Moe= llmann
Eli> was there to provide his perspective on what would and what
Eli> wouldn't be viable, I would have never arrived at the current Eli> design without his guidance, not without making several grave
Eli> mistakes anyway.

+1

This discussion have bring me food for thought.

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