From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philipp Stephani Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Oddities with dynamic modules Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 21:32:07 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83y3b4wdw9.fsf@gnu.org> <83tvhal45r.fsf@gnu.org> <83imwct21t.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="43537"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Yuri Khan , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 21 21:33:44 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h74Nj-000BBx-Iz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 21:33:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46407 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h74Ni-00063i-F6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:33:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42361) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h74MQ-00063Q-AH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:32:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h74MP-0006XF-BZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:32:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]:36171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h74MN-0006Tg-MI; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:32:19 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id o74so6680524ota.3; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:32:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=td5gPoZVbZffysoKpUE9waqDEfvzg/KIYlAr6yfKO6o=; b=EpvtHyJhzyyJU+gbZzmXtlUio0c//0dFbT/NPQb2hFEzRnKiisXlq+GhqbnN2U0fbi FmkpK27kvzD2h4betj4aB6MOqzuoqin3qr4EGBDOst0PNo7eAlccxqVm5mGXzpnHKodw eY26kHBJfGut3bNCfqUnDXeQZsWoJKqiCO/TQjhQSuUA8f+dksO0MkRn/euwBacFror6 bOShVneU3FMeo5+RMXLOMPmzqXFhFZZ+JSc7yC+Nzi0nPes8dRCIzJsSXqkaLLTMr6Ig BsoEnor25qc0NmEi9j+WFXbsaMSWaq03tbkzGm/Jlhf2VdgVn1dKlrTBOLH4osx1qvTn kGjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=td5gPoZVbZffysoKpUE9waqDEfvzg/KIYlAr6yfKO6o=; b=UBSIeeqLBhKuVyx+0g3y8yqBozMewgFuSD065ZHC9ras3BCJvMa2JBETVdPEkLXBfp uL6DYuPYbPdy/wiH6JXf9FDSUIDMMl+Ctd8qoAPsve0nvbPJ795VmW8JATD8b1GR2Q35 AVL380e7ElA/C8bzw9gXJAFPyaRKI5hCOdKkSNIMfleeoqYuHuWJ7wAbaENp0b99itwx 9BqvgUP7dN2+YvnIDMBD6/HComLeUbpfyBfKh97jNqsOMpAx4cgunU4pe2Z55sZwPaRo HcvCLUsYojdVxaswkT36/pBm7OT/U75/PNDA3z2pdi1QWqGAZFjWdSJk5jRQfaPql4qV pDxg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVe2xl9maD66xlonX95IHs9Xj3XaGDax3Yg+4UaOPM0c40WGPDY B5DA4PBICXYqZYu5kgWoV0uQjNI/kchqotPri3LtQUFV X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxhlnmhEdW5RUaizz5AVBBB1RLMRr8/rCEm4ltqJR0APLDRuwI5ETfXOVnhiOUCiSrnc+7cyNO1dlRu9Wj4DBc= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7d82:: with SMTP id j2mr3859559otn.270.1553200338496; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:32:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83imwct21t.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234480 Archived-At: Am Do., 21. M=C3=A4rz 2019 um 21:17 Uhr schrieb Eli Zaretskii : > > > From: Philipp Stephani > > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 21:04:07 +0100 > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers > > > > > > I thought simplicity and convenience of use tramps simplicity of th= e > > > > implementation, so it is strange to read arguments to the contrary. > > > > IME, inconvenient interfaces are the main reason for them being > > > > unstable, but that's me. > > > > > > A good middle ground is a minimalistic (but sufficient) API at the > > > host side, plus idiomatic convenience wrapper libraries for each > > > client language. (The latter need not be maintained by the host API > > > maintainer.) > > > > Yes, that's exactly what Daniel suggested in his initial design. It's > > also what largely seems to be happening: people have written idiomatic > > wrappers for Rust, Go, and probably other languages. > > Where's the wrapper for C? It seems like there isn't enough interest in modules written in C for such a wrapper. Or there is a wrapper and I just don't know about it. The module API is usable as-is, and writing and maintaining a wrapper is nontrivial work. For other languages wrappers are necessary, but C users can use the plain API directly, and that's often a reasonable choice. For example, the FFI module (https://github.com/tromey/emacs-ffi/blob/master/ffi-module.c) is complex enough that a wrapper library probably wouldn't make it much shorter.