From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r116644: ChangeLog entries should be usable without the VCS Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 19:05:14 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1393956364 1615 80.91.229.3 (4 Mar 2014 18:06:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 18:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 04 19:06:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WKtjH-0008PO-6U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 19:06:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47255 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKtjG-0000vU-IU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:06:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48398) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKtj8-0000nd-ST for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:06:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKtj3-0006Zb-PB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:06:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yk0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c07::232]:59222) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKtj1-0006Yv-R7; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:05:55 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yk0-f178.google.com with SMTP id 79so15122917ykr.9 for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:05:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=FKxlIjE6Ze3NzpAXUtSgZQQdvL0jUPb3Xq/nNu69Nkg=; b=Thx7o/90P4+g4mI4yI9uBMl+j0ssEKB+duQBIfdKfrGxTzQf75VDYdo3L/FolEiq1e qtwMcWc/03jMYUZH88r4qEmQKInAUC21cH+QaszCEUMX2ksBrsl3PnoPZpNsnltybjUW cZz912iX6ILEqJHO3rOsJL45Ggp/EjE7SwEUtD3inCmrEr0l+Zp8gUIOPIhQHw5Xq+1z YgtAVY3R0vGsULnCOEPS5I4cBeHWGBsN53+KfCCfmuQBAG13bZ8H20VFMGFiLJD+i+zt 4boVMhFVeTse6OsvBUH9PVzpyjXGYyM0yBJkJIRjWGYjSYvSbZqfqi8wXgHK2bbksHIG /SnA== X-Received: by 10.236.159.65 with SMTP id r41mr1199736yhk.20.1393956354945; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:05:54 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.170.163.3 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 10:05:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c07::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170137 Archived-At: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Glenn Morris wrote: > The ChangeLog should be understandable to someone sitting there with > just the source tarball and no VCS. As previously stated, I disagree because I don't think these people are the real target. The ChangeLogs already do not match that description. Some entries, particularly the more recent ones, if unusually well written, *might* approach that goal, but most won't, not without looking at the corresponding changesets. I know that for a fact: I often look at the ChangeLog entry, then to the annotate listing, and then to the diff to really see what was going on. Our ChangeLogs, much as I like them and don't want to see them go, are in that nebulous place between being a list of changes for outside people (not really, too verbose and rambling*, that's what NEWS is for and does a much better job), and a complete list of changes for the source code tinkerer and developer (it isn't near complete enough, for serious work you need the repo). So the goal that our ChangeLogs satisfy right now is as a helpful tool to speed locating relevant changes, or as a (incomplete) reminder of when was something done, and by whom. (*Like many of my posts ;-) If you think that I'm exaggerating and our ChangeLogs are really pretty complete, I posit that, as an example, while "Follow-up to revno:XXXX" doesn't say much, "Fix last change." doesn't really say much more (yes, you can locate the change it refers to, but, how was it fixed, and what was the problem that required such fixing?). And there are literally hundreds of such entries in our ChangeLogs. > Git hashes versus bzr > revisions, generated ChangeLogs, what gets written in *commit* logs, the > various ways people access the Emacs sources, it's all irrelevant. No, I don't think so. > Anyway, none of this gets us any closer to 24.4. > So I hope this thread will die, and that people with the time to comment > will instead look at documenting the remaining issues in NEWS and fixing > the numerous outstanding bugs. Writing docs, no thanks. Unable to. As for the rest, my feature-freeze patches are all bug fixes or typo fixes (which are bugs IMO); so I tend to agree. J