From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 08:33:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <651bbe21-f179-730a-4f10-7dc6d27055ea@gmail.com> <871qpubx1p.fsf@rfc20.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aab89205ee1e4e1b" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34705"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Matt Armstrong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 23 08:34:24 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oxkH2-0008p5-L0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 08:34:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oxkGW-0003Il-Pk; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 02:33:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oxkGV-0003Ht-B8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 02:33:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oxkGM-0000QX-M3; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 02:33:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id e27so672675ejc.12; Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:33:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HD8yDnyioyy/5P1wsJZ3ZyUK5Wk3zawJ1JRgk+3H0xI=; b=hhlBoBH77J1L6/F41zpgR40cuzXKW1wB0NEOrXA8V93a7DfmB/dIqUKs48n7Ihrfgo mrosehOHDT6I1QzrkmnZrb0+M0NYhi85cR8/yoTg7sIq/r2THhl5GLC2scPx1LgBpVvY NMhgjoQwkIbclFzTlPtcAkE6iu7Ronf45iuXftnhch8cXQOlzlB/qWKkaQ0jJ3iMYeJC z0ZFd1qeb7WpRihkiZs0EAP0ek9FD2NmDhoroMUAWL6jNbqtayJOpm8zPKkEsOYdQEYI KhoUM3IVOgaaevk2Tu03hzpOw6/gFSit1oU18cDg9+k25dhzkFcMy/LsOiwVRqFH4woQ gPtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=HD8yDnyioyy/5P1wsJZ3ZyUK5Wk3zawJ1JRgk+3H0xI=; b=p5sQNs7/wGYHojiSeOzRz7QrWVx7QGX2uAatPftuHioZYTgB8xBFHTXZ6zWkbD9bG6 BbYy7ClOcftnp+3phGEovRiMqUWDLWKmKjkVCgNv1ikHTt5+liTw/8SAo7y8IzMFaX5w F1IWWASQY4ApJlUBha7KG0UCaCtIALkpHNeGAaKzmEuoQnYtfUSTHS1PcHL/azvMu0P6 BVVUt5WfqpLlq8zuGwhttSIR1kW4nJfA+NEN523KA6bTMheCoNoRM9QWkdRxMBO5MF1r GThHmoUiIhntvrCdDNmf3PIYNl9HtOdW/1AG5yNuBBwTktxiE+Ghj0MYT4fOeTlCKwpN P9gw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pkj/Xbpyw/HRxsrqtoW60JWlFn2lru4ndUUWW8cAOtBcdt7peVf BICuhcDVn7T8C93HCkow0SZChN1Xctz3B2Au/7k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5jFeThZCsS9NqLwL2IvQGzYmIDlm6VOjtUAH02yXdEH1EJi2JnzouMP/+qQfZgh9pAhnru7etQ1QCZ4OcGa7s= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7ca:b0:78d:95d8:f8db with SMTP id m10-20020a17090607ca00b0078d95d8f8dbmr21847600ejc.592.1669188819792; Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:33:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <871qpubx1p.fsf@rfc20.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=lekktu@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:300379 Archived-At: --000000000000aab89205ee1e4e1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 8:38 PM Matt Armstrong wrote: > The argument is that all of these languages are all flawed in the same > way, and that a package/module system designed today should aim for > better. That's an overgeneralization. Ada, for example, is free from Beaujolais effects, and it supports overloading of names, so use'ing a package will, at most, cause collisions detected at compile time and easily fixed. (And even these collisions will only happen if the overloaded functions have a similar parameter profile and you happen to use one of them in your code). Of course in Ada it is, perhaps, more common today to rename imported packages as a short prefix, instead of "using" them, but that's for readability, which is a big emphasis in Ada culture. I won't claim Ada packages are a perfect solution, but certainly they don't seem to me "flawed in the same way" that some others you mentioned. --000000000000aab89205ee1e4e1b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 8:38 PM Matt Armstrong <= ;matt@rfc20.org>= wrote:

> The argument is that all of these languages are all fla= wed in the same
> way, and that a package/module system designed toda= y should aim for
> better.

That's an overgeneralization. Ada, fo= r example, is free from Beaujolais effects, and it supports overloading of = names, so use'ing a package will, at most, cause collisions detected at= compile time and easily fixed. (And even these collisions will only happen= if the overloaded functions have a similar parameter profile and you happe= n to use one of them in your code).

Of course in Ada it is, perhaps,= more common today to rename imported packages as a short prefix, instead o= f "using" them, but that's for readability, which is a big em= phasis in Ada culture.

I won't claim Ada packages are a perfect = solution, but certainly they don't seem to me "flawed in the same = way" that some others you mentioned.

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