A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Angelo Graziosi]

Using the binaries for trunk rev. 116256-20140203 from 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/emacs-bin, I notice the following 
behaviour...

On Win7 (64bit), Emacs starts normally, i.e. without a DOS box, using 
the link created by "addpm" in the Start menu.

But if I add Emacs to the applications bar (mouse-3 on the Emacs icon 
and then click on "Add this application to the applications bar"), and 
then I start Emacs from that bar, a DOS box opens behind the Emacs frame.

Is this to be expected?

If I close the DOS box also Emacs closes...


Ciao,
   Angelo.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Angelo Graziosi
<angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:

> But if I add Emacs to the applications bar (mouse-3 on the Emacs icon and
> then click on "Add this application to the applications bar"), and then I
> start Emacs from that bar, a DOS box opens behind the Emacs frame.

Modify the shortcut so it runs runemacs.exe, not emacs.exe.

   J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Angelo Graziosi]

Ciao Juanma,

Il 12/02/2014 00:46, Juanma Barranquero ha scritto:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Angelo Graziosi
> <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:
>
>> But if I add Emacs to the applications bar (mouse-3 on the Emacs icon and
>> then click on "Add this application to the applications bar"), and then I
>> start Emacs from that bar, a DOS box opens behind the Emacs frame.
>
> Modify the shortcut so it runs runemacs.exe, not emacs.exe.


but it ALREADY runs runemacs.exe!!!

Opening the links, it has, as target,

C:\Emacs.app\bin\runemacs.exe


(C:\Emacs.app is the root of Emacs tree...)


Ciao,
    Angelo.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

> but it ALREADY runs runemacs.exe!!!

I mean the shortcut created in the taskbar when you left-click and
select "Add this application to the applications bar", not the
shortcut in the Start menu..

    J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Angelo Graziosi]

Oops...

Il 12/02/2014 02:10, Juanma Barranquero ha scritto:
>> but it ALREADY runs runemacs.exe!!!
>
> I mean the shortcut created in the taskbar when you left-click and
> select "Add this application to the applications bar", not the
> shortcut in the Start menu..

I didn't understand that... Now I have fixed this issue... In any case, 
what Dani suggests seems the main way to avoid it.. :)


Thanks,
   Angelo.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Kalle Olavi Niemitalo]

Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Angelo Graziosi
> <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:
>
>> But if I add Emacs to the applications bar (mouse-3 on the Emacs icon and
>> then click on "Add this application to the applications bar"), and then I
>> start Emacs from that bar, a DOS box opens behind the Emacs frame.
>
> Modify the shortcut so it runs runemacs.exe, not emacs.exe.

On MS-Windows 7 or later, emacs.exe could automate this by
setting the System.AppUserModel.RelaunchCommand property on its
windows.  It would have to detect whether the property should
refer to emacs.exe or runemacs.exe.  Because runemacs.c sets
start.wShowWindow = SW_HIDE when it calls CreateProcess,
emacs.exe could perhaps call GetConsoleWindow and
IsWindowVisible, or call GetStartupInfo and check wShowWindow.
Some of the necessary functions don't exist in MS-Windows 9X,
so GetProcAddress would have to be used.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:06 AM, Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <kon@iki.fi> wrote:

> On MS-Windows 7 or later, emacs.exe could automate this by
> setting the System.AppUserModel.RelaunchCommand property on its
> windows.

Would you file a wishlist bug report with a suitable patch, please?

    J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <kon@iki.fi>
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 07:06:32 +0200
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> On MS-Windows 7 or later, emacs.exe could automate this by
> setting the System.AppUserModel.RelaunchCommand property on its
> windows.

AFAIU, this will avoid Angelo's problem with pinning of Emacs icons
(solving which is probably a Good Thing), but it doesn't resolve the
issues that cause us to have runemacs.exe in the first place.  IOW,
runemacs.exe will still need to be available, even if we adopt this
technique.

> It would have to detect whether the property should refer to
> emacs.exe or runemacs.exe.  Because runemacs.c sets start.wShowWindow
> = SW_HIDE when it calls CreateProcess, emacs.exe could perhaps call
> GetConsoleWindow and IsWindowVisible, or call GetStartupInfo and check
> wShowWindow.

Why is this logic needed?  Are there any circumstances where the
pinned icon should invoke emacs.exe, rather than runemacs.exe?

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Dani Moncayo]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:46 AM, Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Angelo Graziosi
> <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:
>
>> But if I add Emacs to the applications bar (mouse-3 on the Emacs icon and
>> then click on "Add this application to the applications bar"), and then I
>> start Emacs from that bar, a DOS box opens behind the Emacs frame.
>
> Modify the shortcut so it runs runemacs.exe, not emacs.exe.

If it was possible, it'd be nice if we could get rid of
"runemacs.exe", and always use "emacs.exe" like on the rest of
platforms.

AFAIK, what "runemacs.exe" does is to asynchronously invoke
"emacs.exe" and then close/kill the CMD window.  Wouldn't it be
possible to achieve the same behavior from "emacs.exe"?

-- 
Dani Moncayo

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com> wrote:

> AFAIK, what "runemacs.exe" does is to asynchronously invoke
> "emacs.exe" and then close/kill the CMD window.  Wouldn't it be
> possible to achieve the same behavior from "emacs.exe"?

IIRC, it would be possible, but then you would see the console being
opened and then hidden, which is ugly. You could work around it by
setting a shortcut to start Emacs hidden, but that doesn't help when
you run emacs.exe directly from the Start menu, for example. The whole
runemacs/emacs dance is here to avoid that initial "open console /
hide console" ugliness.

    J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Fabrice Popineau]

Juanma Barranquero <lekktu <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo <at> gmail.com> 
wrote:
> 
> > AFAIK, what "runemacs.exe" does is to asynchronously invoke
> > "emacs.exe" and then close/kill the CMD window.  Wouldn't it be
> > possible to achieve the same behavior from "emacs.exe"?
> 
> IIRC, it would be possible, but then you would see the console being
> opened and then hidden, which is ugly. You could work around it by
> setting a shortcut to start Emacs hidden, but that doesn't help when
> you run emacs.exe directly from the Start menu, for example. The whole
> runemacs/emacs dance is here to avoid that initial "open console /
> hide console" ugliness.
> 
>     J
> 

AFAIK, there is no clean solution to build an app which is both a console 
app and a gui app.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2009/01/01/9259142.aspx

Anyway, if you dare to use it, you can try my own binaries for Emacs-W64 :

http://semantic.supelec.fr/popineau/programming-emacs.html#sec-2

There is a version of emacsclient borrowed from EmacsW32 which is more 
friendly than the pair runemacs/emacs .

Basically, emacsclient is used to launch emacs and no console show off.

Fabrice
> 

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:30:48 +0000 (UTC)
> 
> There is a version of emacsclient borrowed from EmacsW32 which is more 
> friendly than the pair runemacs/emacs .
> 
> Basically, emacsclient is used to launch emacs and no console show off.

In what way is this more friendly than the "official" way of invoking
Emacs?

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> In what way is this more friendly than the "official" way of invoking
> Emacs?

If no emacs instance is running, it starts emacs, waits for it to
answer, and then connects with it as if the emacsclient had been
successful in the first place. This is better in some cases that
simply running emacs through -a, mostly when emacsclient is used to
launch Emacs as editor for some app.

But Lennart has not updated his emacsclient from the trunk in years,
and it is different enough that integration of his changes is not
trivial (not impossible, of course, just a non-negligible amount of
work).

     J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:52:44 +0100
> Cc: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@gmail.com>, Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> > In what way is this more friendly than the "official" way of invoking
> > Emacs?
> 
> If no emacs instance is running, it starts emacs, waits for it to
> answer, and then connects with it as if the emacsclient had been
> successful in the first place. This is better in some cases that
> simply running emacs through -a, mostly when emacsclient is used to
> launch Emacs as editor for some app.

I understand why this is better when we indeed need the client
functionality.  I was asking why is this better when just invoking
Emacs for the first time in a session, like after a system restart.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> I was asking why is this better when just invoking
> Emacs for the first time in a session, like after a system restart.

I don't think Fabrice meant this, but let's hear him.

   J

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Fabrice Popineau]

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Well, before starting to use this modified emacsclient, I had the same
complaint about the pair runemacs/emacs launching a spurious console.
That was quite some time ago.

Seeing this report, I infered too quickly that this was still a problem.
If it isn't so, I apologize.
Actually, looking at runemacs.c, I see that it takes care of a few
things my old emacsclient.c doesn't.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to merge both programs (runemacs
+ emacsclient) into one.

Fabrice


2014-02-12 18:41 GMT+01:00 Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > I was asking why is this better when just invoking
> > Emacs for the first time in a session, like after a system restart.
>
> I don't think Fabrice meant this, but let's hear him.
>
>    J
>

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Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:48:03 +0100
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
> 	Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> 
> You could work around it by setting a shortcut to start Emacs hidden

How do you do that?  I see only "minimized" and "maximized" options,
but no "hidden" option.  What am I missing?

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> How do you do that?  I see only "minimized" and "maximized" options,
> but no "hidden" option.  What am I missing?

Nothing, I misremembered. Sorry.

Re: A DOS box starting Emacs (w32)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:37:15 +0100
> From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
> 	Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it>
> 
> If it was possible, it'd be nice if we could get rid of
> "runemacs.exe", and always use "emacs.exe" like on the rest of
> platforms.

If it's possible, yes.  Patches are welcome.

> AFAIK, what "runemacs.exe" does is to asynchronously invoke
> "emacs.exe" and then close/kill the CMD window.

No, that's not what runemacs does.  It invokes emacs.exe while
specifying that its console window be hidden in the first place, and
never shown, neither on the desktop nor in the task bar.  This
prevents momentarily flashing the console window, as well as several
other potential problems.  As a side effect, it also emulates the
Posix "&" shell operator, when runemacs is invoked from a shell
prompt (although this is not the main reason for having runemacs, as
there are other method of achieving the same).

> Wouldn't it be possible to achieve the same behavior from
> "emacs.exe"?

Maybe it is possible, but certainly not trivial, AFAIK.  Patches are
welcome; the requirements for such a single emacs.exe executable are
as follows:

 . It should be able to run it as a console application with output to
   the same console from which it was invoked, when given the -nw or
   the -batch/--script options.

 . When run without the above switches, it should behave as a GUI
   application, i.e. create a GUI frame, start the message pump, etc.

 . When invoked from a shell prompt, it should support redirection as
   in "emacs > foo" (including redirection of stderr with 2> and 2>&1),
   both in GUI and in -nw/batch modes.

 . When invoked from a shell prompt, it should not release the console
   (this is actually a subtle prerequisite of the previous requirement,
   but is mentioned here explicitly because it is not immediately
   self-evident).

 . When invoked in the GUI mode, it should not display a console
   window of any kind, shape, or form, including not in the task bar.

 . It should support invocation in GUI mode using any method Windows
   provides for activating applications, including from a desktop
   shortcut, from the Start menu, and from the icon pinned to the task
   bar.

 . When invoked in the console/batch mode, it should not display any
   additional windows, GUI or otherwise.

 . In batch mode, it should be able to read keyboard input typed into
   the console window from which it was invoked.

 . It should support invocation from a debugger, as in "gdb ./emacs.exe".

 . It should be possible to invoke Emacs "as Administrator".