From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2022 14:12:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87bkqxf1ij.fsf@tethera.net> <871qrrpkgx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <834jwnbi6c.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtafnun5.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83sfk6ahty.fsf@gnu.org> <8735c6b0wo.fsf@gnus.org> <87y1ty9lha.fsf@gnus.org> <87lepym6ok.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <877d1i9h7k.fsf@gnus.org> <83edvqyr3q.fsf@gnu.org> <874jwl8e4p.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmf64beo.fsf@gnus.org> <87h70i4a46.fsf@gnus.org> <87czb648r9.fsf@gnus.org> <874jwi47l6.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgea2sgv.fsf@gnus.org> <83leop528p.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1sp3713.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000b490605ecb8f255" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27876"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, akrl@sdf.org, rlb@defaultvalue.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, david@tethera.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 05 14:13:16 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1orIz6-00073n-Hc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 14:13:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1orIyf-0007Od-NR; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:12:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1orIyd-0007Nx-5f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:12:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x630.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::630]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1orIyb-0005Bt-G4; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:12:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x630.google.com with SMTP id b2so19661877eja.6; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 06:12:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NrWksE7lVjpsi799bFLXN3aa4JP+5z0KbkjTZUBSmJ0=; b=qTWCuQeeO5r7wkt1mkCjEgATVaVG0iU5KEJV/fdH+Gy6q+AzMg77hBGsskUKOcKhUk p8Q53QogjmKRAtw3NGSS5KFzIsC7KfS2FklxXb8QBfsZbhwhYA7bIULmHhDqUM7oeLRX AYs7xgLA8vvaDiIy0u2HZ/q/R5pVosf7qKSgJL7s8tnsQe9HZJleuDy3OwlIEVoAeW/t 57vHGFLRER2X9xgdIfLZXIGiAQcFDwqFpDzm9uoMcSv6enf6eHbm22B3xIh+Tq24Lf9Y us/l70RO/QinuffThDLSttB7Q20JWL8Df9CiprYtPrkkvEr4KvnlmOBeZyZbpDqLYUfb R9sQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=NrWksE7lVjpsi799bFLXN3aa4JP+5z0KbkjTZUBSmJ0=; b=r918k8YMfl0vZ4KyFv3hyY84DikmDDEBarYDZ9B546FRxpwnynWHuOHW0Qvr+nPRH7 /ucxa+/cC9Me1czhX3D8wZ8Rz6ddib+J777zGHBPK6KTQJbpEwzqbo9QzmwalONCnMj4 wAoVcXR+vaOuXoME3ppGFJZN2rAUAjJ5cWiDztXAue8LwlBzwRdZ2FF1MqukhCBCtYv4 XltFT3dMR/ESMZap9qa8TjfVL69ipqX+g2Ou1NCvw+rMhmkx4RWq8s8Nwim3v5cT7n04 eAXGkVQZ8+MxBor49kYT2Zpmgop711/YQ/Ik+PmNvmt8LughV/vsTPMXl/zRpS5DYY7z dyQw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1WAmZtrkbAPP7ndW7Ax0nvuCISh0C3V/3mlfQD7MKXeqkl7W14 NrAvbPmhWjHrsywkjstuShVJlNStsPMvQvGxojWuQfDQ1/w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5k7zD/vBjkK+vJtwfhE4zA0efCUro9xn7pZkntAO7hC+Hz85eSR0c6s90LfnGUDjxWPAhdjni3uox68VlDaVE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:a02:b0:7ac:9a51:3403 with SMTP id bb2-20020a1709070a0200b007ac9a513403mr39839893ejc.220.1667653962515; Sat, 05 Nov 2022 06:12:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83y1sp3713.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::630; envelope-from=lekktu@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x630.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299196 Archived-At: --0000000000000b490605ecb8f255 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 1:44 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Well, we'll have to disagree. The -Q switch is documented as > disabling various things that happen at startup, specifically loading > stuff that changes the defaults. Yeah, well, there's --no-splash ;-) > I see no reason to change what -Q means, even though some people, for > reasons I cannot grasp, consider JIT native compilation to be > "unusual". I don't consider it unusual, except that in my build, if I enter Emacs, load something that triggers native compilation, and exit quickly, the subprocesses crash (I get invitations to "connect with gdb and debug them", which disappear after a few seconds). That had me puzzled for a while. > Suppose you start "emacs -Q" where some of the *.el files were already > compiled into the corresponding *.eln files, would you then expect > "emacs -Q" not to use those *.eln files, and instead to load the *.elc > files? If yes, why? If not, how does this differ from when you > invoke "emacs -Q" and the *.eln files do not yet exist, but are > produced when Emacs loads the corresponding package? Loading them and using them wouldn't be a problem, because it does *not* write anywhere, while producing them does. In my case, they do just where I don't want them to be. As you say, we'll have to agree to disagree. I admit the issue is nuanced and there's no single solution that will please everyone. --0000000000000b490605ecb8f255 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 1:44 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> Well, we= 'll have to disagree.=C2=A0 The -Q switch is documented as
> disa= bling various things that happen at startup, specifically loading
> s= tuff that changes the defaults.

Yeah, well, there's --no-splash ;-)
> = I see = no reason to change what -Q means, even though some people, for
> rea= sons I cannot grasp, consider JIT native compilation to be
> "un= usual".

I don't consider it unusual, except that in my build, if I enter = Emacs, load something
that triggers native compilation, and exit quickly, the subpro= cesses crash (I get
invitations to "connect with gdb and debug them", whic= h disappear after a few seconds).
That had me puzzled for a while.

> S= uppose you start "emacs -Q" where some of the *.el files were alr= eady
> compiled into the corresponding *.eln files, would you then ex= pect
> "emacs -Q" not to use those *.eln files, and instead= to load the *.elc
> files?=C2=A0 If yes, why?=C2=A0 If not, how does= this differ from when you
> invoke "emacs -Q" and the *.el= n files do not yet exist, but are
> produced when Emacs loads the cor= responding package?

Loading them and using them wouldn't be a problem, because= it does *not* write anywhere,
while producing them does. In my case, they do just w= here I don't want them to be.

As you say, we'll have to agree to disagre= e. I admit the issue is nuanced and there's no
single solution that will please = everyone.

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