From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Artur Malabarba Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the masking of undisplayable characters Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:57:08 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83wpydup68.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3d7dc8c3f5c051a3a4f85 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1436212639 2264 80.91.229.3 (6 Jul 2015 19:57:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 19:57:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 06 21:57:19 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZCCVx-0001Fx-T0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:57:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52743 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZCCVx-0005zn-Fb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:57:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33400) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZCCVs-0005zK-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:57:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZCCVr-0003mB-KS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:57:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]:35569) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZCCVp-0003lU-Fl; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:57:09 -0400 Original-Received: by labgy5 with SMTP id gy5so16477023lab.2; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=8ur8bj3FkMP8fF4T3lLBEgMcHVZR8q6MFj1FoThljzQ=; b=fkuhdEpiaSyZph2FCJK6iFkMnI5b1duXuk7F9PoYHU1XeaiKmr1c/N3kTLiLZJ9zwS 8gA/heT8sTjNzWVRXnf9AV5N/mgA+N5QXVai7zeX+k5Jk5sQioT86eL0kfcOq4A/gsH9 SbcoEVbzmUTgDCjXpfb7cAfxCni7dErsptlXNXasrCu7Ry8/zgWAapK9fpdEciFQvPjd Gfu/jsE0KLBkUOn0bZ9H71r3qPrGf2W2QXEL973k70gdyAYPbPUdtkHcdx6kZtDw0Z3c yaaiishdxu1oXjZWqeIRgyXNPS9HpKYj5BlWf6H5OM+kE+1RQMzjy+FSfwCkxlo+Vjcy PvRw== X-Received: by 10.112.210.137 with SMTP id mu9mr480120lbc.95.1436212628567; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.214.133 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.214.133 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83wpydup68.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: r_JjZmkSf0mqGjez1A1BVypUCKY X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187749 Archived-At: --001a11c3d7dc8c3f5c051a3a4f85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > What characters are you talking about, specifically? Round quotes were displayed as hard quotes. The reason this happened on my pc was a bug, but I understand that for systems that really can't display them this is what will happen. I didn't check whether this applies to any other characters. I was just surprised to find out the file was not being displayed as-is without so much as a notice. > It's hard to respond without knowing the details. Most of the uses of > display tables I know of are there for ages, so adding some kind of > message about that now would seem inappropriate. (And when exactly do > we display that message? when the character is first displayed?) When visiting the file and when the character is typed for the first time, would be an option. > Then again, I think you might be over-reacting a bit: Perhaps. I didn't mean to sound dramatic. If this only happens for quotes it's less of an issue, but it could grow with time. I'm saying that I (and maybe other people) expect that the contents of a buffer are reflected in what's displayed. I'm perfectly fine with modes and options that change that (like prettify-symbols, for instance), but having this masking as a default surprised me quite a bit. > Emacs always > displayed special characters specially. Think about the ^X control > characters, That's fine. When I see a blue ^X, I know that's a control character, it's very clear that it's not a ^ with an X. > the glyphless-char-display feature, I don't know which characters are affected by this. > composed characters, You mean like a non-spacing ` and a looking like an =C3=A0? The non-spacing characters are specifically designed to do that, it's not the same as displaying one quote as another quote. > even the newline. You mean that \n and \r\n are displayed the same way? Yeah, I've been bit several times by it, but at least it's indicated in the mode line. --001a11c3d7dc8c3f5c051a3a4f85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> What characters are you talking about, specifically?

Round quotes were displayed as hard quotes. The reason this = happened on my pc was a bug, but I understand that for systems that really = can't display them this is what will happen.

I didn't check whether this applies to any other charact= ers. I was just surprised to find out the file was not being displayed as-i= s without so much as a notice.

> It's hard to respond without knowing the details.= =C2=A0 Most of the uses of
> display tables I know of are there for ages, so adding some kind of > message about that now would seem inappropriate.=C2=A0 (And when exact= ly do
> we display that message? when the character is first displayed?)

When visiting the file and when the character is typed for t= he first time, would be an option.

> Then again, I think you might be over-reacting a bit:

Perhaps. I didn't mean to sound dramatic.
If this only happens for quotes it's less of an issue, but it could gro= w with time.

I'm saying that I (and maybe other people) expect that t= he contents of a buffer are reflected in what's displayed. I'm perf= ectly fine with modes and options that change that (like prettify-symbols, = for instance), but having this masking as a default surprised me quite a bi= t.

> Emacs always
> displayed special characters specially.=C2=A0 Think about the ^X contr= ol
> characters,

That's fine. When I see a blue ^X, I know that's a c= ontrol character, it's very clear that it's not a ^ with an X.

> the glyphless-char-display feature,

I don't know which characters are affected by this.

> composed characters,

You mean like a non-spacing ` and a looking like an =C3=A0? = The non-spacing characters are specifically designed to do that, it's n= ot the same as displaying one quote as another quote.

> even the newline.=C2=A0

You mean that \n and \r\n are displayed the same way? Yeah, = I've been bit several times by it, but at least it's indicated in t= he mode line.

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