* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' [not found] ` <83mvzaws3s.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2015-07-05 16:27 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel, bruce.connor.am, Dmitry Gutov [ Please take out the 20968@... from the Ccs. ] > That's not the use case I was talking about. Looking up questions > already asked means using a search engine, which will find the answers > wherever they are, be it on gnu.emacs.help of stack-overflow. No, the curating (tagging, voting, and editing) makes a significant difference: you don't need to read N different messages (hopefully connected via threading) to get the overall picture. When I search (via, say, DuckDuckGo) for answers to a particular problem, I generally find that the answers I find in stackoverflow are generally more directly usable and of higher quality than what I may find elsewhere. Sometimes I can get more details and info in the developer's mailing list archive, but it takes more effort and technical expertise to find it and digest it. > I was talking about someone who wants to ask a question never > asked/answered before. In that case it mostly depends on who's available to answer the question. I think in this respect the average proficiency level on emacs.stackexchange is very much comparable to that of gnu.emacs.help. As for redirecting people to *us* (i.e. emacs-devel or debbugs), I find it neither harder nor easier on stack-foo than on gnu.emacs.help. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 16:27 ` bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2015-07-05 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel, bruce.connor.am, dgutov > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> > Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > bruce.connor.am@gmail.com > Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 12:27:48 -0400 > > > That's not the use case I was talking about. Looking up questions > > already asked means using a search engine, which will find the answers > > wherever they are, be it on gnu.emacs.help of stack-overflow. > > No, the curating (tagging, voting, and editing) makes a significant > difference: you don't need to read N different messages (hopefully > connected via threading) to get the overall picture. The answers on Stack-overflow present discussion as well. And at least I always read everything there, not just the "best" answer. > When I search (via, say, DuckDuckGo) for answers to a particular > problem, I generally find that the answers I find in stackoverflow are > generally more directly usable and of higher quality than what I may > find elsewhere. Then we may wish to make our answers better and more usable as well. Again, if we want to; it doesn't sound to me people are too enthusiastic about this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 19:30 ` Artur Malabarba 2015-07-05 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 19:44 ` Artur Malabarba 2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel, bruce.connor.am, dgutov > Then we may wish to make our answers better and more usable as well. No, we can't: we can only reply with additional info, but we can't retroactively fix our earlier replies. That's the difference between a curated answer site like SX and a mailing-list like GEH. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 19:30 ` Artur Malabarba 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-07-05 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel, Brief Busters 2015-07-05 19:09 GMT+01:00 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>: >> Then we may wish to make our answers better and more usable as well. > > No, we can't: we can only reply with additional info, but we can't > retroactively fix our earlier replies. That's the difference between > a curated answer site like SX and a mailing-list like GEH. To be fair, that's the difference between mailing-lists and any online forum whatsoever. Being able to edit answers is a basic requirement for a Q&A system that wants to present quality answers that rank highly in search engines. Being able to edit the questions themselves is another one (since a lot of questions are asked very poorly, which makes them difficult for other people to find). Then there are the differences that stack-exchange presents, which are what make them standout so much over all the other bajillion systems that let you edit answers. Amongst them are the voting system, the moderation philosophy, the objective-questions-only policy, and maybe others I can't think off here. I don't think help-gnu-emacs should strive to achieve all that. I think it's a fine place for discussions, and an OK place for Q&A, but trying to be awesome at Q&A (besides being a tremendous task) would probably imply being bad at discussions (as is the case with stack-foo). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 19:18 ` Artur Malabarba 2015-07-05 19:44 ` Artur Malabarba 2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel, bruce.connor.am, dgutov > The answers on Stack-overflow present discussion as well. And at > least I always read everything there, not just the "best" answer. Of course, but it's all in a single web-page, rather than in a tree of web-pages. And the info is not just sorted by time but by votes, which should reflect the relevance/quality of the answer. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 19:18 ` Artur Malabarba 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-07-05 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel, Brief Busters 2015-07-05 19:11 GMT+01:00 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>: >> The answers on Stack-overflow present discussion as well. And at >> least I always read everything there, not just the "best" answer. > > Of course, but it's all in a single web-page, rather than in a tree of > web-pages. And the info is not just sorted by time but by votes, which > should reflect the relevance/quality of the answer. *And* the discussions are usually reserved for comments, which are much less emphasized than the information itself (the answers). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2015-07-05 19:44 ` Artur Malabarba 2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-07-05 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel >> When I search (via, say, DuckDuckGo) for answers to a particular >> problem, I generally find that the answers I find in stackoverflow are >> generally more directly usable and of higher quality than what I may >> find elsewhere. > > Then we may wish to make our answers better and more usable as well. > Again, if we want to; it doesn't sound to me people are too > enthusiastic about this. Yes, I find it a bit hard to be enthusiastic about it. There's nothing wrong with trying to make help-gnu-emacs better, but as long as it's a mailing list it's going to have a very hard time being highly ranked in search engines. Besids, to have other sites dedicated to Emacs is only a sign of a healthy (and dedicated) community. If we're worried that that information might go away without notice, we could archive it ourselves (that's pretty trivial, even). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-07-05 19:44 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <23829743-922e-4304-8ab3-b762b8193860@default> [not found] ` <74y4iytdjg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <e68f1dc9-9e8f-4f54-af8f-a5bb23160576@default> [not found] ` <83pp49zb03.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <jwv8uaxp9k3.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org> [not found] ` <83egkpyvvd.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <CAAdUY-+_4DzOCe6Yp19PWkxH+Ba3FGm4mCbeafho+8KodyKanQ@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <83si94xrcn.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <55991ADF.8070208@yandex.ru> [not found] ` <83pp46wu2z.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <5599450F.4050609@yandex.ru> [not found] ` <83mvzaws3s.fsf@gnu.org> 2015-07-05 16:27 ` bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2015-07-05 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 19:30 ` Artur Malabarba 2015-07-05 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier 2015-07-05 19:18 ` Artur Malabarba 2015-07-05 19:44 ` Artur Malabarba
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