From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Artur Malabarba Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:34:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87si59wj42.fsf@T420.taylan> <878u6znii9.fsf@T420.taylan> <877fmjj9p6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zizfm2dq.fsf@T420.taylan> <871tcr7yvq.fsf@fastmail.com> <87mvvfm0bd.fsf@T420.taylan> <56250803.5080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8ren5ys.fsf@T420.taylan> <56259BB1.3070908@cs.ucla.edu> <878u6ykmvt.fsf@T420.taylan> <87h9llvo98.fsf@members.fsf.org> <5626622A.3090707@yandex.ru> <87zizdijbp.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267302.7050606@yandex.ru> <87io61igyu.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267CDF.6010201@yandex.ru> <87wpuhh15s.fsf@T420.taylan> <562683B9.1060305@yandex.ru> <83y4exe71v.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445510084 22283 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 10:34:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:34:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 12:34:44 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpDCk-0000ED-Lc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:34:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58569 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpDCj-0006WE-UH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:34:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53397) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpDCV-0006Vw-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:34:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpDCS-0005fH-Kd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:34:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]:33945) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpDCS-0005et-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:34:24 -0400 Original-Received: by lfaz124 with SMTP id z124so42616391lfa.1 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 03:34:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=hHgIA3Ob7vDqfkPUlXMjP2gzhAW7yKoK/cXtYd+OSlk=; b=s6RGTaXsWeJiFl1CsQrOEAyE1Hvrms6PPvA6sEqln3CdVdkdRtsdj57eKiwapxvwdA XX5OlGRNDVwE4Nrjbm1pRD8KqehKa/79dbnGgkI3cIuZafc7C37nevSwnV4yflzN0oTm HzX52MV7/6MZzEgpaAEzMkHo1Qz7x/imuHhRwLM8gcS/n6LxyXTqbslGeQvH1uxbssBG 2sVdv7tT96CVxTdGz3n8JUUcOxl9trJ/DzP7VsroGC75ZAYdTmfKda852+UxDv4zdX+W 8CbJ3PWbcH2dS416CpvqdHO45wBrGdrcxZ+s2XbiEpFhlb1hrpYxHl23ZbgqJa5PRS7J PNEw== X-Received: by 10.25.29.129 with SMTP id d123mr5265447lfd.4.1445510063670; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 03:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.22.197 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 03:34:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: yS-U5EVW7sollMzBLk4_fvV_75w X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192361 Archived-At: On 22 Oct 2015 6:40 am, "John Wiegley" wrote: > So I'd like to emphasize, to our maintainers, that we must strive to make > patience, kindness, and consideration, our primary attributes when dealing > with contributors -- especially those new to the process, who are developing > their first impressions, and based upon which will either continue to help us, > or walk away frustrated. Yes. It's very easy (and only natural) for maintainers to feel at home here in the list, and it's ok for the maintainers to treat each other casually. However, this is not home, it's more like our office. So when someone new shows up at reception, it's best to treat them with an extra notch of politeness and respect. I should say now: I don't mean that the maintainers are unpolite (not even a little bit). I'm just saying that we don't know the person when they first submit a contribution, and they don't know us. So it's best to be extra nice, because that's just how the world works. Some people have grown in more aggressive areas of the Internet (or the world), and they'll get defensive _very_ quickly. Other people have grown in extremely polite areas of the world, and they may feel unwanted if the same politeness is not extended to them here. And what do I mean by extra politeness? 1. Start the conversation by saying "Hi ..., thanks for submitting this"; 2. When making suggestions that are not essential, say something like "Your code looks good to apply, but I have a couple of suggestions if you'd like to improve it further". 3. At random points during a conversation, show small signs of politeness _especially_ if your email is turning out rather long (e.g., "Sorry for taking so long", "We're almost getting there now!"). I know, this takes patience. If we don't think the team has the patience to behave like this, then one or two who do should be appointed for the job of making first contact (as sort of embassadors). (In fact, this might be a good idea even if the team _can_ manage to be extra polite). And then there's a fourth point, which is a little harder, but it would really help demonstrate organization and respect. 4. If the same point goes back and forth twice between you and the contributor, then stop arguing about it. Bring it up in a separate place just amongst the maintainers, and then come back and say "Hi ___, I brought this up with X, Y, and Z yesterday, and decided that ___ because ___.". Even if the decision is against what the contributor wants, this sort of attitude shows that at least some thought was given to their arguments. More importantly, it shows respect, organization, and professionalism. This may occasionally give off the impression that emacs-devel is super picky about the code it lets in, but that's better than giving off the impression that it is a messy team with no structure and that submitting code is akin to roullete.