From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xfq Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than special forms. (Bug#13853) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 06:54:49 +0800 Message-ID: References: <87obd8rnk1.fsf@yandex.ru> <9yli8bzriy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1366584898 30508 80.91.229.3 (21 Apr 2013 22:54:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:54:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 22 00:54:58 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UU39t-00079y-OV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2013 00:54:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55230 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UU39t-0004u8-BL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:54:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48623) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UU39p-0004tH-LJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:54:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UU39o-0002VI-GB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:54:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e]:43951) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UU39m-0002Up-JF; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:54:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 10so6490137ied.33 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:54:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=TU4PkjLIN7BzL0J82xa1xliISjFdOP17N1kiDCMVMXs=; b=QaGq5JXJoeA19nncKELLhw1qxw/QErqAFJF5EfIn/DmuUdd9caNEKWx4Dq/xuGn+dK TA38wz7wEEUoPjG2LMNnnuLSZISSqNcZWU72EV/V0H9QK68rFU008D4r2eQ92i3z/l/H WT68qOz96ua3J/pWl5FLd3iIj1WT7+eTMCaA3Qp9dxc41pwMICkMKZpO2fg9BHZxvfpc NmMsmuqz997XmrKF19RUQP0OJFLU7AomyxRpneI9IVUqjpMzemOFRYJI3CceYjRJhvST oeEdM9b5ghj0/W7fD9fLnJE0TxRLKSXjl9DhUWHN8x4gSDyH+AnR9rz7tXSiCkjQ2I2C yz+A== X-Received: by 10.50.55.8 with SMTP id n8mr6726565igp.28.1366584889948; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.43.18.10 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:54:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9yli8bzriy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:159095 Archived-At: On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Glenn Morris wrote: > > The problem I saw with these changes, and the reason I did not fix it at > the time it was reported, is that previously "special form" was defined > (in a simple way using only a couple of sentences) before it was used to > refer to any particular function. Now the term "macro" is used well > before it is defined. So the manual no longer makes sense when read in > order, which matters for an introduction IMO. It needs more work that > just replacing "special form" by "macro" in a few places. Maybe we can add this sentence to (info "(eintr) defun") or (info "(eintr) Complications"), then add a cross reference to (info "(eintr) Lisp macro"): "Macro" is a construct defined in Lisp, which differs from a function in that it translates a Lisp expression into another expression which is to be evaluated instead of the original expression. > Also, the menu is now inconsistent: > > * defun:: The @code{defun} special form. > > etc Sorry, I forgot it. >> -(Another special form, @code{defcustom}, is designed for variables >> -that people customize. It has more features than @code{defvar}. >> -(@xref{defcustom, , Setting Variables with @code{defcustom}}.) > > Why was this removed? It could have been simply changed to "Another > function,... ". The reference to defcustom is the important thing, not > the details of whether it is a special form or macro. Maybe "another macro"? I think there are not too many complications in this introduction/tutorial. Lambda expression is in the appendix, and closure and byte-code function are not mentioned. Since macros in explained in the main body of this tutorial, I don't think it is more clear to lie. > PS Please keep commit log lines to ~ 80 chars in length. > The first line should be a summary that can stand alone. > Eg "Minor emacs-lisp-intro updates related to special forms" Thanks, I will do it the next time. (Is there anyway to amend this commit log?) -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/