From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xue Fuqiao Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New maintainer Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 19:40:04 +0800 Message-ID: References: <560CCEBA.9080607@online.de> <874miapdhs.fsf@openmailbox.org> <83oagg4buo.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443872426 18645 80.91.229.3 (3 Oct 2015 11:40:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:40:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@newartisans.com, rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 13:40:25 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiLAt-0007Kg-Bu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:40:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37986 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiLAs-00063k-Fg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 07:40:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48156) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiLAg-00061g-6T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 07:40:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiLAf-0003po-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 07:40:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ig0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c05::229]:37948) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiLAb-0003i7-G8; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 07:40:05 -0400 Original-Received: by igxx6 with SMTP id x6so31956875igx.1; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 04:40:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NlvWWi3RpFFeQOEGRt84sKvr32R9yQn7YTM+cgGpjKw=; b=wREYf60UDEsPphWt198FgHXGeBUg3+pg0cuQdBNUadDP4El2liCWKLW2OXkdtp5KDT AFocTTqiv7rIAKI6y93IYpblsv+S9D/Xf6SF67U8ChJNREutLag3BqtUzillrjTBEAr5 9ZIk9yYp8DgZWl3cptuTAyh5pq+WLkeZu7fg8ObUNP6fZhYZk3+ZrrmFV5MZ9KVIc6Ru xGs3EKg2WKZSJ4V8KEPdCbnYOwThfn9hy7WxT0fM5r0e9eQlC0HognNWgpo0gKEunN/X 3/KsRTT88gUvYwzE0iaYwTPkxYwZE4txrBdMogb2r758G4KX3cRW3WZ7moStiXLGWqSH 4MgQ== X-Received: by 10.50.136.129 with SMTP id qa1mr1756398igb.91.1443872405100; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 04:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.79.94.2 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Oct 2015 04:40:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83oagg4buo.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c05::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190780 Archived-At: On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Emacs is so large that its maintenance is IMO qualitatively different > from almost any other package out there. There are maybe a dozen > distinct large areas of expertise in the C core, dozens of such areas > in core Lisp infrastructures, and hundreds of them on the application > level. Each one of these comes with its own non-trivial > domain-specific knowledge, its own algorithms, its own do's and > dont's. No single person nor a small (2-3) number of people could > ever cover all that turf in any reasonable way. > > By contrast, a head maintainer seems to be expected to be the final > authority for making decisions on changes in any particular area, and > also on design and implementation of both significant and > insignificant new features. > > So, given this seemingly unsolvable contradiction, what do you, the > crowd, expect of the new maintainer? What "job description", in > addition to what Richard wrote, would you propose if you were tasked > with the job of finding the candidates? E.g., how many hours a week > should that person be available for working on Emacs? Which talents > and personal traits should he or she possess? Etc. etc. The head maintainer should make policy about the general direction of Emacs, and should make final decisions. Since one single maintainer or a small team can't "cover all that turf", the decision-making can be distributed to a range of participants. I think a (documented) decision-making policy would be nice. When a new idea, feature, patch, etc. turns up in the mailing lists (most likely on emacs-devel), voting, for example, can be helpful for gauging the community's general sentiment, or help the head maintainer make a decision if he or she is not familiar with the domain-specific knowledge of a package/area. It doesn't have to have a binding force. Voting can be done with numbers (+1, -1, 0), and a -1 vote should include an alternative proposal or a detailed explanation of the reasons for the vote. Of course, to provide an opportunity for participants from all over the world, there should be a minimum voting duration (e.g., 72 hours). But IMHO using a vote tracking system like Debian's devotee[1] is overkill. Or, the head maintainer only makes a decision when: * it needs urgent action * nobody else has responsibility (perhaps judged by `admin/MAINTAINERS' and/or the `Maintainer' header in a file) * we can't reach an agreement As for "job description", in addition to what Richard wrote, I think the head maintainer should also: * know the overall situation of Emacs well * be familiar enough with Emacs Lisp, C, and Git * be comfortable with Debbugs (or be willing to find a good alternative that can still be controlled with email and write import scripts from Debbugs and assist its deployment inside the FSF infrastructure) * be comfortable with Texinfo * (at least) have some basic understanding of the GNU build system * keep an eye on GNU ELPA commits, not only Emacs core Moreover, IMO if an Emacs developer nominate herself as a candidate head maintainer, she should summarize her plans for her term. For example, if I self-nominate for that role, I'll write something about how to make Emacs easier to contribute, the release schedule, when to obsolete/deprecate features, how to improve the bug-fixing workflow and the testing infrastructure, how to cooperate/communicate better with popular third-party packages (like Magit/CIDER/Projectile), and write a draft feature roadmap (dynload/modules, concurrency, new extension languages, FFI, i18n, GUI builder, etc.). [1] https://www.debian.org/vote/