Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Brian Burns]

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Hi Nicolas,

Thanks a lot for working on this - I really like the look of the first page
and the text, though the page doesn't fit well on my screen (1366x768,
Firefox on Windows). If it adapted to all screen sizes so the "Learn More"
button was at the bottom of the screen it would be great, but maybe that's
hard to do with CSS?

One thing that might help draw people in is screenshots - they're quicker
to grok than reading text - maybe the first half-screenshot could be a full
one on a carousel, and the user could click through different ones
emphasizing all the interesting aspects of Emacs with a brief blurb of text
underneath? I like the look and size of that initial half-screenshot - it's
very readable.

Spacemacs just came out with a new design which has 5 screenshots, though
it automatically flips through them, and the text is too small to read -
http://spacemacs.org/. But it seems like there could be several really
interesting ones for Emacs, including the things you emphasized with the
circles. And for the circles I still liked the version with the icons
instead, but that's just my view :).

Have you thought of having a background for the main content to sit on,
i.e. along the edges? Like a dark gray? It might look good, or might not...

> Emacs 24 runs on several operating systems regardless of the machine
type.

Should this just say GNU Emacs, not Emacs 24?

> The main ones are: GNU, GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, OS X, MS
Windows, and Solaris.

I didn't actually realize GNU existed as an OS - maybe that could link to
something about it. And should it say Microsoft Windows instead of MS
Windows, or just Windows? I realize in documentation there's possible
confusion talking about windows, but here it would be clear.

> GNU Emacs contains code for supporting several other operating systems
and machine types. For more details, see the MACHINES file, which is also
distributed with GNU Emacs.

Maybe could say

Other operating systems and machine types are also supported - for more
details, see the MACHINES file, which is also distributed with GNU Emacs.

- just briefer.

> Emacs 24 has a wide variety of new features, including:

Might want to reduce the spacing after this line, and increase it before
the "For more information" line.

And it would be great to have a little bit about upcoming new features in
Emacs 25, so readers will know what's being worked on - just a list with
some bullet points.

Thanks again for working on this - if you need help in working on it I'd
certainly be willing to help out - maybe you could put it on GitHub and
take issues and pull requests? I could take a stab at a screenshot
carousel, if that would be good to have.

Brian

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Brian Burns <bburns.km@gmail.com> writes:

> One thing that might help draw people in is screenshots - they're quicker
> to grok than reading text - maybe the first half-screenshot could be a full
> one on a carousel, and the user could click through different ones
> emphasizing all the interesting aspects of Emacs with a brief blurb of text
> underneath? I like the look and size of that initial half-screenshot - it's
> very readable.

That would be great, but I'm not sure what screenshots we should put
in it.

> And it would be great to have a little bit about upcoming new features in
> Emacs 25, so readers will know what's being worked on - just a list with
> some bullet points.

Could be a good idea :)

> Thanks again for working on this - if you need help in working on it I'd
> certainly be willing to help out - maybe you could put it on GitHub and
> take issues and pull requests? I could take a stab at a screenshot
> carousel, if that would be good to have.

Done, you can access it there:
https://github.com/NicolasPetton/emacs-website

It also includes some svg and xcf files as well as my work on the ELPA
website.

Nico

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New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi,

I just put online at
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
the Emacs homepage.

I made several changes in the content after we discussed we had with RMS
about it.  BTW, Richard, I will work more on that later.

I also worked on the "Features" section and made brand new screenshots,
and worked a bit on the descriptions.

Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.

As always, feedback is more than welcome!

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Lee Hinman]

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Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I just put online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration
> of the Emacs homepage.
>
> As always, feedback is more than welcome!

This seems to be weird layout/spacing to me:


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;; Lee Hinman

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Lee Hinman <lee@writequit.org> writes:

> Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just put online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration
>> of the Emacs homepage.
>>
>> As always, feedback is more than welcome!
>
> This seems to be weird layout/spacing to me:

It's not just weird, it's a bug ;)

Thanks!
Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Lee Hinman <lee@writequit.org> writes:

> This seems to be weird layout/spacing to me:

It should now be fixed.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Lee Hinman]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

>> This seems to be weird layout/spacing to me:
>
> It should now be fixed.

Looks fixed to me now, thanks!

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Scott Randby]

On 01/07/2016 03:55 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.

These videos use a patent encumbered format.

Scott Randby

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Scott Randby <srandby@gmail.com> writes:

> On 01/07/2016 03:55 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
>> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.
>
> These videos use a patent encumbered format.

What format should I convert them to? ogg?

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 01/08/2016 12:19 AM, Nicolas Petton wrote:

>> These videos use a patent encumbered format.
>
> What format should I convert them to? ogg?

WebM VP8 or VP9 seems to be the popular alternative these days.

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Scott Randby]

On 01/07/2016 04:19 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> Scott Randby <srandby@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 01/07/2016 03:55 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
>>> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.
>>
>> These videos use a patent encumbered format.
>
> What format should I convert them to? ogg?

The best choice is WebM in my opinion, but it isn't supported by all 
browsers, and that format has been accused of being patent encumbered. 
However, all patents on the format are licensed for free to anyone who 
uses the format.

If you don't want to use WebM, then you might consider OGG, but WebM is 
really designed for the web while OGG is not. OGG has patent problems too.

Video formats are a mess when it comes to licensing. You can find good 
information at these two links:

   https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Supported_media_formats

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video

Scott

>
> Nico
>

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Spencer Boucher]

 
There is more spacing below the GNU/Linux button than between the 
other buttons. Is this intentional to highlight GNU? If it is, 
maybe it could be emphasized in a way that is more obvious and 
doesn't seem like it might just be a layout bug. 

Nicolas Petton writes:

> Hi, 
> 
> I just put online at 
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another 
> iteration of the Emacs homepage. 
> 
> I made several changes in the content after we discussed we had 
> with RMS about it.  BTW, Richard, I will work more on that 
> later. 
> 
> I also worked on the "Features" section and made brand new 
> screenshots, and worked a bit on the descriptions. 
> 
> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen. 
> 
> As always, feedback is more than welcome! 
> 
> Cheers, Nico


-- Spencer Boucher

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Spencer Boucher <spencer@spencerboucher.com> writes:

>  
> There is more spacing below the GNU/Linux button than between the 
> other buttons. Is this intentional to highlight GNU?

It is, indeed.

> If it is, maybe it could be emphasized in a way that is more obvious
> and doesn't seem like it might just be a layout bug.

You are right.  I plan to add a visual separator between them in the
future.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > There is more spacing below the GNU/Linux button than between the 
  > other buttons. Is this intentional to highlight GNU? If it is, 
  > maybe it could be emphasized in a way that is more obvious and 
  > doesn't seem like it might just be a layout bug. 

Perhaps make that button bigger than the other two?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Rasmus]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> I also worked on the "Features" section and made brand new screenshots,
> and worked a bit on the descriptions.

I like the screenshots.  It’s nice with the shadow and edgings.

I like the colors and the fonts very much!  The purples are excellent.

> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.

Maybe it's a good idea...  But they are too small.  Please don’t assume
that I want to watch videos in full screen.

The dark purple video box/section is so small compared to the other
boxes/sections IMO.

On the videos.  Are these placeholders or do you plan to keep these exact
videos?

   - Since you like to use the default theme + Gnome3 in screenshots,
     shouldn’t the videos use this?  Also, it seems to be use a OS-Macs
     titlebar.
   - The first one doesn’t use nadvice.
   - The second seems to use features not present in emacs -q (multiple
     cursors?).  wouldn’t it be nicer to show off features that are
     present out of the box?
     - Showing off wdired and rectangle-mode are cool features and might
       be good topics.
     - I find the video to be all over the place.  But maybe it’s because
       I’m mistaking built-in features with features that are in the
       multiple cursor thingy Magnar is talking about.
     - It’s too long IMO (for longer presentations I prefer text).
   - The third video starts with a poorly written statement (with "funny
     math") from someone that I don’t know.
     - I love Paredit!  And this is actually a pretty cool demo of it.
       Nonetheless, it’s not part of emacs -q and thus I think it doesn’t
       belong here.
     
Note: I have no idea how easy or hard it is to make new or change or redo
these videos, so the comments might be irrelevant.

Would something like small "advertisement" for some of our cool
modes/programs fit into 1½ min. videos?  E.g. Org (maybe several:
publishing, todo management + agenda, babel), Gnus (posting styles), eww,
Emacs lisp, comint (maybe + python), ido, (w)dired etc.

I’d find this more in the spirit of the website.

There’s of course awesome extensions that could also be advertised:
AUCTeX, ESS, EMMS, company, paredit, js2-mode etc.

The format and length of Magnars’ videos are good, but the content should
be more basic and more focused IMO...


Finally, I don’t understand the symbolism behind the icon associated with
the "Releases" heading.  It’s probably not important, though.

Again, many, many thanks for working on this!  It looks great!

Rasmus

-- 
The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
>
>> I also worked on the "Features" section and made brand new screenshots,
>> and worked a bit on the descriptions.
>
> I like the screenshots.  It’s nice with the shadow and edgings.
>
> I like the colors and the fonts very much!  The purples are excellent.
>
>> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.
>
> Maybe it's a good idea...  But they are too small.  Please don’t assume
> that I want to watch videos in full screen.

I plan to open videos in lightboxes instead, so it won't stay like that.

>
> The dark purple video box/section is so small compared to the other
> boxes/sections IMO.

Yes, I agree. I'll add a title to this section and add more bottom
padding.

> On the videos.  Are these placeholders or do you plan to keep these exact
> videos?

I plan to use the latest 3 videos from emacsrocks.com.

>    - Since you like to use the default theme + Gnome3 in screenshots,
>      shouldn’t the videos use this?  Also, it seems to be use a OS-Macs
>      titlebar.

I know, but I'm not the author of these screencasts.

>    - The first one doesn’t use nadvice.
>    - The second seems to use features not present in emacs -q (multiple
>      cursors?).  wouldn’t it be nicer to show off features that are
>      present out of the box?
>      - Showing off wdired and rectangle-mode are cool features and might
>        be good topics.
>      - I find the video to be all over the place.  But maybe it’s because
>        I’m mistaking built-in features with features that are in the
>        multiple cursor thingy Magnar is talking about.
>      - It’s too long IMO (for longer presentations I prefer text).
>    - The third video starts with a poorly written statement (with "funny
>      math") from someone that I don’t know.
>      - I love Paredit!  And this is actually a pretty cool demo of it.
>        Nonetheless, it’s not part of emacs -q and thus I think it doesn’t
>        belong here.

Well, I think emacsrocks.com screencasts are really well made, exciting,
short and to the point.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 07 2016, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just put online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
> the Emacs homepage.

Looks much better to me (especially the new feature screenshots), but I
wonder why there is a big "Learn more" button in the center of my screen
that does nothing but scroll down by half a screen-width. Is there some
window-height detection code that might be failing?

Best,
-Nikolaus

(No Cc on replies please, I'm reading the list)
-- 
GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F
Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

             »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> writes:

> Looks much better to me (especially the new feature screenshots), but I
> wonder why there is a big "Learn more" button in the center of my screen
> that does nothing but scroll down by half a screen-width. Is there some
> window-height detection code that might be failing?

I wonder the same.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> writes:

> On Jan 07 2016, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just put online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
>> the Emacs homepage.
>
> Looks much better to me (especially the new feature screenshots), but I
> wonder why there is a big "Learn more" button in the center of my screen
> that does nothing but scroll down by half a screen-width. Is there some
> window-height detection code that might be failing?

I think I'll just remove that link.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Semrau]

On 07.01.2016 21:55, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.
>
> As always, feedback is more than welcome!

I like the idea of using videos to get points about specific or unique 
features of Emacs across.  I'd suggest one improvement: Please consider 
switching the current order of the "Features include" and the "Videos" 
sections.  This would increase the information flow and hierarchy of the 
website in my opinion.

My reasoning: After being introduced by the usual short blurb of text in 
the header, the user would then be presented with a general overview of 
key features that make Emacs the valuable tool it is in the "Features" 
section. Since the information is presented as a small collection of 
thumbnailish screenshots with bits of accompanying text and the one 
screenshot at the top, this slowly increases the amount of information. 
It also slowly increases the required attention/engagement of the reader 
and gives him/her a general idea of what Emacs is and what it looks like.

With this gist in mind the reader could then choose to engage even more 
and drill deeper into specific features by watching the videos and 
seeing the editor in motion.

And who wouldn't rush to the "Obtaining" section after that? :)

Greetings,
Nicolas

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:55 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Nicolas,

> I just put online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
> the Emacs homepage.

Thanks for your great work!  The new screenshots look much better to me.

> Also new, I added 3 videos from Emacsrocks.com by Magnar Sveen.

Like Rasmus, I also think the videos are too small.  I think the size of
the video in the Light Table website look good to me:

http://lighttable.com/

If you think three big videos take up too much screen space, maybe you
can integrate them into a "carousel".

You can also use some click-to-enlarge technology, like videos on:

* https://atom.io/
* https://angularjs.org/

BTW, do not put <video> and <p> in <ul>.  The content model for element
`ul' is: "Zero or more li and script-supporting elements."[1]

[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-11/msg02452.html

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> BTW, do not put <video> and <p> in <ul>.  The content model for element
> `ul' is: "Zero or more li and script-supporting elements."[1]

That's a mistake, it shouldn't be like that, I'll fix it.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yuri Khan]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> I just put online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
> the Emacs homepage.
>
> As always, feedback is more than welcome!

Please do not style the “More downloads” link as display: block. When
you do that, the whole width of the window becomes the click area for
the link. This interferes with several not-so-rare habits such as
[selection reading][1] and [middle-button autoscrolling][2].

Instead, put the link in a block-level wrapper element such as a
paragraph or a list item as you see fit.

[1]: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20150528-00/?p=45014
[2]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/advanced-panel-settings-in-firefox#w_browsing


Also, when I click any link that causes a scroll, I expect to be able
to return by clicking my Back button, but am not. I believe the
relevant search keywords are “history API”.

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>
>> I just put online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/ another iteration of
>> the Emacs homepage.
>>
>> As always, feedback is more than welcome!
>
> Please do not style the “More downloads” link as display: block.

Fixed.

> Also, when I click any link that causes a scroll, I expect to be able
> to return by clicking my Back button, but am not.

Also fixed!

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

The new emacs site at www.gnu.org/software/emacs links to
emacsrocks.com. But emacsrocks.com has non-free javascript on it in the
form of Google Analytics.

From the source of emacsrocks.com:

"""
(function() {
  var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true;
  ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js';
  var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s);
})();
"""

This is a problem. Either emacsrocks.com needs to stop using non-free
JS, or the FSF should remove that link.

-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:

> The new emacs site at www.gnu.org/software/emacs links to
> emacsrocks.com. But emacsrocks.com has non-free javascript on it in the
> form of Google Analytics.
>
> From the source of emacsrocks.com:

It has just been removed.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:
>
>> The new emacs site at www.gnu.org/software/emacs links to
>> emacsrocks.com. But emacsrocks.com has non-free javascript on it in the
>> form of Google Analytics.
>>
>> From the source of emacsrocks.com:
>
> It has just been removed.

Thank you for the extremely prompt action and reply.

-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:
>
>> The new emacs site at www.gnu.org/software/emacs links to
>> emacsrocks.com. But emacsrocks.com has non-free javascript on it in the
>> form of Google Analytics.
>>
>> From the source of emacsrocks.com:
>
> It has just been removed.

As long as we are on this topic, someone has just pointed out to me (on
#fsf IRC) that the CSS files are being served from third-party servers,
namely:

https://code.cdn.mozilla.net/fonts/fira.css
https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/font-awesome/4.5.0/css/font-awesome.min.css

I feel like it would be better if those CSS files would be served from
fsf-controlled URLs like static.fsf.org, so that the FSF has control
over them.

This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.

-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:

> As long as we are on this topic, someone has just pointed out to me (on
> #fsf IRC) that the CSS files are being served from third-party servers,
> namely:
>
> https://code.cdn.mozilla.net/fonts/fira.css
> https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/font-awesome/4.5.0/css/font-awesome.min.css

I removed the second one (it was unused).

> I feel like it would be better if those CSS files would be served from
> fsf-controlled URLs like static.fsf.org, so that the FSF has control
> over them.

I can do that.

> This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
> anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.

But it has a cost too: it won't be served by the Mozilla CDN, and we'll
have to maintain this file.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:
>
>> As long as we are on this topic, someone has just pointed out to me (on
>> #fsf IRC) that the CSS files are being served from third-party servers,
>> namely:
>>
>> https://code.cdn.mozilla.net/fonts/fira.css
>> https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/font-awesome/4.5.0/css/font-awesome.min.css
>
> I removed the second one (it was unused).
>
>> I feel like it would be better if those CSS files would be served from
>> fsf-controlled URLs like static.fsf.org, so that the FSF has control
>> over them.
>
> I can do that.
>
>> This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
>> anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.
>
> But it has a cost too: it won't be served by the Mozilla CDN, and
> we'll have to maintain this file.

The marginal cost of maintaining one extra file when the FSF is already
maintaining such a large website is well... marginal.

But it's a matter of policy. The real question is whether the FSF are ok
with it on principle.


-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Clément Pit--Claudel]

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On 03/30/2016 01:40 PM, Yoni Rabkin wrote:
> The marginal cost of maintaining one extra file when the FSF is already
> maintaining such a large website is well... marginal.

Not really, right? Won't users have to download a new copy of these fonts just for the Emacs website, instead of using a cached version that they probably already have (due to other websites depending on Mozilla's CDN)?

Clément.


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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:

> On 03/30/2016 01:40 PM, Yoni Rabkin wrote:
>> The marginal cost of maintaining one extra file when the FSF is already
>> maintaining such a large website is well... marginal.
>
> Not really, right? Won't users have to download a new copy of these
> fonts just for the Emacs website, instead of using a cached version
> that they probably already have (due to other websites depending on
> Mozilla's CDN)?

I can't honestly believe that this is a real issue. The FSF's sites are
very light compared to the typical modern web site and this won't make a
noticeable difference. If it does make a difference then a better
solution is to remove those fonts instead of "side-loading" them.

Another question would be whether someone coming to the FSF's sites
would expect that type of behavior from the FSF.

The bottom line is that this should be handled according to the FSF
webmaster's policy on using third-party servers to provide Web
materials. I personally hope that policy is not to rely on third-party
delivery of materials which are served from the FSF website. I typically
block such materials by default when I use a graphical browser.

-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
  > > anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.

  > But it has a cost too: it won't be served by the Mozilla CDN, and we'll
  > have to maintain this file.

That's a secondary issue.  Autonomy of our site is more important.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
>   > > anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.
>
>   > But it has a cost too: it won't be served by the Mozilla CDN, and we'll
>   > have to maintain this file.
>
> That's a secondary issue.  Autonomy of our site is more important.

I will change the CSS file to be served by us.

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Yoni Rabkin]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>
>>   > > This would have the additional benefit of not leaking information about
>>   > > anyone visiting fsf.org to third-parties.
>>
>>   > But it has a cost too: it won't be served by the Mozilla CDN, and we'll
>>   > have to maintain this file.
>>
>> That's a secondary issue.  Autonomy of our site is more important.
>
> I will change the CSS file to be served by us.

As of this morning, the CSS files are still being served by
code.cdn.mozilla.net. I'll check again in about a week.

No judgment though; I just want to make sure that this doesn't fall
between the cracks.

-- 
   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net> writes:

> As of this morning, the CSS files are still being served by
> code.cdn.mozilla.net. I'll check again in about a week.

I'm making various improvements, and this is in my list, but things take
time :)

Nico

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Re: New iteration on the Emacs homepage

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Our policy is that it is ok to link to a site that has some nonfree
Javascript code, as long as the page works even if the visitor blocks
execution of that code.  Not executing the Google Analytics code
won't make anything important fail, so ignore that please.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.