From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Subject: Call for testers for GNU Hyperbole 5.12, a large, useful Emacs package Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:58:52 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1c45cff0-8b33-8dd1-c385-4f8675ff4fd6@yandex.ru> Reply-To: rswgnu@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113db4bab288980535a7dcf3 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1466369985 1905 80.91.229.3 (19 Jun 2016 20:59:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:59:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Mats Lidell , emacs-devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 19 22:59:40 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjof-0000eP-My for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 22:59:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40021 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjoe-0001L4-LL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:59:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37140) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjoY-0001Ko-5G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:59:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjoS-0005Jy-Mt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:59:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjoS-0005Jm-JA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:59:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ob0-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:36136) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bEjoQ-00044x-Vi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ob0-f181.google.com with SMTP id hx8so1725056obb.3 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:59:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLzzSvVEcjMpC5kc2heYfY/bUDfzwb2Eue+9EM43mw5XPHBevUNihBT4XiS8QX61SGPcfwR9BuKb6mmGw== X-Received: by 10.157.14.174 with SMTP id 43mr6573827otj.83.1466369962048; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.236.73 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:58:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1c45cff0-8b33-8dd1-c385-4f8675ff4fd6@yandex.ru> X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:204547 Archived-At: --001a113db4bab288980535a7dcf3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 06/15/2016 04:41 AM, Robert Weiner wrote: > > Use {C-h h d d} to display the Hyperbole DEMO, for a demonstration of >> standard Hyperbole button capabilities. >> > > This is a trick! It's not a demo, it's a tutorial. Or maybe really a > manual, given it touches a lot of things but doesn't get to the "here's > what you do to get X" quickly, where X is a thing the user knows and > realizes they might want to do. > People really like to talk abstractly here, which is fun, but doesn't help move things forward too far when you could just as easily describe exactly what you mean. Did you find the demo useful or not? Did you like that it seemed more of a tutorial or not? What are the things that you in particular wanted to know how to do that the demo did not explain or touch upon. There is a 150 page manual with extensive cross-references for more detail but a few more sections are yet to be written. > > A demo is when you expend minimal effort and mostly observe the niceties > of a program/package/website/etc, in a condensed form. > Hyperbole is highly interactive, so we want people to interact with it. We don't call it a tutorial because it doesn't seek to teach you how to use Hyperbole but only to experience some of its interesting features. > > Some feedback: > > - The buttons look like when I've seen of ACME. Neat, but didn't make me > switch. > I don't know want ACME is. But what would you be switching from? How else can you interactively create buttons with elisp actions in Emacs? Maybe org-mode does some of this? Like org-mode, you need to spend more than hour or so with Hyperbole to see what it can do for you. Just leave it loaded in your Emacs and experiment with it at times and read the manual as you have time. - This doesn't work: "To display the top-level Hyperbole menu, click the > Action Key anywhere within this paragraph or alternatively". It asks for > the location of TAGS file instead. > Yes, one of the things still to be updated is the demo which has some old parts left to it. This is coming soon. > - "Grep, Occurrence, Debugger and Compiler Error Buttons, and Cscope > Analyzer Lines" for some reason describes the normal Emacs functionality? > Hyperbole recognizes these anywhere and doesn't need to parse the whole buffer, just the immediate line. > - "Depress the Action Key somewhere within this paragraph > and while holding it down, depress the Assist Key." doesn't lead to the > desired effect, or maybe I just understand the instructions. > I will check. There was a problem with this but I believe it was fixed in 5.12. You need to be holding down shift-mouse2 and then press shift-mouse3 or vice versa to see help for the first key pressed. Thanks for the initial feedback. Bob --001a113db4bab288980535a7dcf3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> = wrote:
On 06/15/2016 04:= 41 AM, Robert Weiner wrote:

Use {C-h h d d} to display the Hyperbole DEMO, for a demonstration of
standard Hyperbole button capabilities.

 This is a trick! It's not a demo, it's a tutorial. Or maybe really = a manual, given it touches a lot of things but doesn't get to the "= ;here's what you do to get X" quickly, where X is a thing the user= knows and realizes they might want to do.

<= div>People really like to talk abstractly here, which is fun, but doesn'= ;t help move things forward too far when you could just as easily describe = exactly what you mean.=C2=A0 Did you find the demo useful or not?=C2=A0 Did= you like that it seemed more of a tutorial or not?=C2=A0 What are the thin= gs that you in particular wanted to know how to do that the demo did not ex= plain or touch upon.=C2=A0 There is a 150 page manual with extensive cross-= references for more detail but a few more sections are yet to be written.

A demo is when you expend minimal effort and mostly observe the niceties of= a program/package/website/etc, in a condensed form.
<= br>
Hyperbole is highly interactive, so we want people to interac= t with it.=C2=A0 We don't call it a tutorial because it doesn't see= k to teach you how to use Hyperbole but only to experience some of its inte= resting features.
=C2=A0

Some feedback:

- The buttons look like when I've seen of ACME. Neat, but didn't ma= ke me switch.

I don't know want ACM= E is. =C2=A0 But what would you be switching from?=C2=A0 How else can you i= nteractively create buttons with elisp actions in Emacs?=C2=A0 Maybe org-mo= de does some of this?=C2=A0 Like org-mode, you need to spend more than hour= or so with Hyperbole to see what it can do for you.=C2=A0 Just leave it lo= aded in your Emacs and experiment with it at times and read the manual as y= ou have time.

- This doesn't work: "To display the top-level Hyperbole menu, cli= ck the Action Key anywhere within this paragraph or alternatively". It= asks for the location of TAGS file instead.

Yes, one of the things still to be updated is the demo which has some= old parts left to it.=C2=A0 This is coming soon.
=C2=A0
- "Grep, Occurrence, Debugger and Compiler Error Buttons, and Cscope A= nalyzer Lines" for some reason describes the normal Emacs functionalit= y?

Hyperbole recognizes these anywhere = and doesn't need to parse the whole buffer, just the immediate line.
=C2=A0
- "Depress the Action Key somewhere within this paragraph
and while holding it down, depress the Assist Key." doesn't lead t= o the desired effect, or maybe I just understand the instructions.

I will check.=C2=A0= There was a problem with this but I believe it was fixed in 5.12.=C2=A0 Yo= u need to be holding down shift-mouse2 and then press shift-mouse3 or vice = versa to see help for the first key pressed.

Thanks for the initial feedback.

Bob
=

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