From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Robert Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion: Add discussion of input focus handling to select-window; add select-frame-window Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:15:26 -0500 Message-ID: References: <5A30E9AF.2060105@gmx.at> <5A317FAA.3090209@gmx.at> <83d13iv095.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmj2ugok.fsf@gnu.org> <834loqskkw.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rswgnu@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1149a3843230340560784527" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1513444608 15599 195.159.176.226 (16 Dec 2017 17:16:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:16:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: martin rudalics , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 16 18:16:39 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG4j-00038j-A6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 18:16:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51426 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG4q-0000S9-71 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:16:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40003) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG49-0000Rr-Dx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:16:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG46-0005q7-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:16:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG45-0005q2-V3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:15:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-f181.google.com ([209.85.220.181]:39422) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eQG45-0006ZC-8o; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:15:57 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-f181.google.com with SMTP id u184so13938208qkd.6; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:15:57 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIhOrs88c/rl0JxSQykx6n5MH+LJGUuLryk1xW2a3MIqm5D2UbB 7T7Ggio+xJ0XPIJCvB83zoyLZzFFyIJUbhTD0oE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovipGwi5TXGMraYGD7AfBAr6YycDITx9ntx+EP9SZ087tNQm7+Xkps97KhSUQtdXwZbf+SqfII3pCxlOJRNO6U= X-Received: by 10.55.217.153 with SMTP id q25mr2218186qkl.175.1513444556809; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:15:56 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.200.55.124 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221137 Archived-At: --001a1149a3843230340560784527 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Robert Weiner wrote: > > So my thought is that where interactive user input goes is broader than > input focus, > is connected to what window is selected, and should be explained in one > place in > a succinct manner that is easily findable when looking up windows or > frames. > =E2=80=8BI would also argue that although I agree that selecting windows, s= electing frames and setting user input to a frame are all different concepts, they are lower-level concepts from which higher-level user-centered behaviors are built. The user model is much closer to "I select a thing that I see and any further inputs go there". In fact, with many window managers this is true, as a click in a window will select the frame, the window and set input focus there. So there is no reason to avoid offering the Elisp programmer a similar model that documents these concepts in combination and brings the programming model closer to the user model. For those times where finer-grained control is necessary, the individual behavior primitives are always available. Bob =E2=80=8B --001a1149a3843230340560784527 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Dec 16, 2= 017 at 12:04 PM, Robert Weiner <rs= w@gnu.org> wrote= :

So my thought is that where interactive user input goes is broader t= han input focus,
is con= nected to what window is selected, and should be explained in one place in<= /div>
a succinct manner that = is easily findable when looking up windows or frames.

=E2=80=8BI would also argue that although I= agree that selecting windows, selecting frames and
setting user input to = a frame are all different concepts, they are lower-level concepts
from whi= ch higher-level user-centered behaviors are built.=C2=A0 The user model is = much closer
to "I select a thing that I see and any further inputs go= there".=C2=A0 In fact, with many
window managers this is true, as a = click in a window will select the frame, the window
and set input focus th= ere.=C2=A0 So there is no reason to avoid offering the Elisp programmer
a = similar model that documents these concepts in combination and brings the p= rogramming
model closer to the user model.=C2=A0 For those times where fin= er-grained control is necessary,
the individual behavior primitives are al= ways available.

Bob



=E2=80=8B
--001a1149a3843230340560784527--