From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Subject: Call for testers for GNU Hyperbole 5.12, a large, useful Emacs package Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:43:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1c45cff0-8b33-8dd1-c385-4f8675ff4fd6@yandex.ru> Reply-To: rswgnu@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1466434144 8828 80.91.229.3 (20 Jun 2016 14:49:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 14:49:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Mats Lidell , emacs-devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 20 16:48:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0VD-0004Np-2Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 16:48:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44091 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0VC-00043S-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:48:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57879) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0Qi-0000IF-J8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:44:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0Qd-0006A7-By for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:43:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47587) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0Qd-00069q-9C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:43:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io0-f175.google.com ([209.85.223.175]:36436) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bF0Qb-0008IK-Of for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io0-f175.google.com with SMTP id n127so132310010iof.3 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIReWGQy7NiQf7kzoMxF77BfWJ2ActLZ9KV5CQIkQ8cpTYiR6KQoqwbth0Paf3gMGMQ9Tqt2w1ujItNFA== X-Received: by 10.157.14.174 with SMTP id 43mr9629905otj.83.1466433832922; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 07:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.236.73 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 07:43:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:204589 Archived-At: On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 06/20/2016 01:20 AM, Robert Weiner wrote: > >> Fair enough. The HY-ABOUT file available on {C-h h d a} tells you >> what it is all about and should >> be mentioned in the HY-README file. > > > Thanks, that's a better read for that purpose. We are also working on a quick list of items of why people might want to use Hyperbole. The beginning of this is found in the HY-WHY.kotl file in your hyperb:dir directory. We welcome ideas for this list. >> True. You probably want {C-h h d t} which lets you browse all of the >> implicit button types and action types. > > > Rather than a long list of things that are possible, I would prefer to see > two or three things that are most impressive. Or four. See if you can find one and tell us what it is. Everyone will find different things of use. Look at the User Quotes section from past users in the HY-README file and you will see what other people have found impressive. >> That's like asking what workflow Lisp can enable. Hyperbole is a >> toolkit, like Emacs, that you mold to your needs. It has a lot of >> built-in behavior but is not limited by this. > > > Right, but a system that allows you to do anything often doesn't help you do > anything in particular. That's a problem, both for new users and for > advocates. We are open to suggestions for how to make Hyperbole even more approachable. I think we have done a lot more than most other packages to explain all sorts of things to both new and experienced users. Maybe what is needed is a sequence of what to look at in what order or maybe you have suggestions for the readme file where it points you to various documents and how that could be improved. > >> If you get into Hyperbole more, you will certainly understand why we >> name that key and don't use a specific mouse button name much. > > > Probably, but I meant that introducing new terms in a demo might be > premature. I see your point. I think the demo is aimed at people that know they have an interest in Hyperbole and what to try it out, not for people who just want to investigate whether or not to use it. The other documents I have pointed you to should serve that purpose. We know there is a need for a video demo as well but don't have anyone with time to make it yet. > >> Send us your system specifics so we can possibly replicate the >> problem. With Hyperbole, you can do this with {C-h h m c}. > > > Hopefully that does it: > > Editor: GNU Emacs 25.0.95.2 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.9) > > Hyperbole: 05.12 > Sys Type: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu > OS Type: gnu/linux > Window Sys: x > > Although I'm not starting with bare Emacs, but rather with my own customized > configuration. See if you can send a backtrace of any error you get or at least the message, so we can understand better. Bob