From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Robert Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion: Add discussion of input focus handling to select-window; add select-frame-window Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:27:56 -0500 Message-ID: References: <5A30E9AF.2060105@gmx.at> <5A317FAA.3090209@gmx.at> <83d13iv095.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmj2ugok.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2rxt6jx.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rswgnu@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0828a8fc4f71970560779b5f" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1513441723 30823 195.159.176.226 (16 Dec 2017 16:28:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: martin rudalics , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 16 17:28:39 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFKI-0007hI-IO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:28:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51189 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFKP-0006ZP-BP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:28:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFKE-0006XA-09 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:28:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFKA-0002mJ-RO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:28:33 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35651) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFKA-0002m7-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:28:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qt0-f175.google.com ([209.85.216.175]:33491) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eQFK7-0000Qd-4v; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:28:27 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qt0-f175.google.com with SMTP id e2so15630349qti.0; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:28:27 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ5f+T8HzTSoA5ER7rWhbpEc1/Orv5JLWmynm2wZVkoFkqV8cSB TzR6XyIrYcXkXAD8iqNgpwYFjQDc/5ehAtFU9Ck= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovyGa3CkZKoywgieDU0ZoI/DIoNoxQB32+OPkWCgzLoKzo/HoWLVn/uYccp0eKNm6TpytSbSN25KwPv9fFuiAA= X-Received: by 10.200.19.11 with SMTP id e11mr21985496qtj.62.1513441706601; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:28:26 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.200.55.124 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:27:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221133 Archived-At: --089e0828a8fc4f71970560779b5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Does anyone else see a need for something like this or am I the only on= e > > that finds there are too many gotchas > > and complexities in dealing with combinations of these issues right now= ? > > I think we're generally better off embracing the idea that it's not > Emacs's job to decide how to handle focus and window stacking. > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > Because the problems with focus and such don't all have to do with > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > technicalities of how the APIs work, but also with interaction about the > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > specific focus policy that the user may have chosen in his > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > window-manager (as well as with the frame/window management policies he > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > has setup in his display-buffer-alist). > =E2=80=8BIt is good that advanced users like yourself can customize handlin= g of frame positioning, stacking and input focus but most users will simply use the policy of their native window manager, so that is the first scenario that we should seek to improve, if any. Given that Emacs offers raise-frame, lower-frame and select-frame-set-input-focus to programmers, we have to acknowledge that these will be used in specific scenarios to provide a best effort result in affecting frame stacking and input focus redirection. Bob --089e0828a8fc4f71970560779b5f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Dec 14, 2= 017 at 8:42 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>= ; Does anyone else see a need for something like this or am I the only one<= br> > that finds there are too many gotchas
> and complexities in dealing with combinations of these issues right no= w?

I think we're generally better off embracing the idea that it= 9;s not
Emacs's job to decide how to handle focus and window stacking.
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
Because the problems with focus and such= don't all have to do with
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
technicalities of how the APIs work, but= also with interaction about the
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
specific focus policy that the user may = have chosen in his
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
window-manager (as well as with the fram= e/window management policies he
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
has setup in his display-buffer-alist).<= br>

=E2=80=8BIt is good that advanced users like you= rself can customize handling of
frame positioning, stacking and input focu= s but most users will simply
use the policy of their native window manager= , so that is the first
scenario that we should seek to improve, if any.
<= br>
Given that Emacs offers raise-frame, lower-frame and select-frame-set-= input-focus
to programmers, we have to acknowledge that these will be used= in specific
scenarios to provide a best effort result in affecting frame = stacking and
input focus redirection.

Bob

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