From: Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>,
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Add discussion of input focus handling to select-window; add select-frame-window
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:44:10 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+OMD9guEX_NdG7tB6qO6SS7oohPDah3_xKZD+fR7vqcQzSrTA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83po7eqwe7.fsf@gnu.org>
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On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > From: Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org>
> > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:18:09 -0500
> > Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, martin rudalics <
> rudalics@gmx.at>,
> > emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> >
> > > Frame-level input focus is insufficient to describe the window to
> which
> > > keyboard input goes in all cases.
> >
> > We were talking about how input focus was an insufficient
> > concept to describe which window user input is directed to.
> > Similarly, select-window is insufficient by itself as well.
>
> And I disagree with that. I think it _is_ sufficient.
>
As you said, we have covered this enough.
>
> > Where is that explained? How does one find it?
>
>
>
>
>
> It's in the text you cited about what the "selected w
>
> indow" means. If
>
> you are saying that "most editing" does not necess
>
> arily cover keyboard
>
> input, I'm okay with adding that as an example.
>
>
That would be good if it had a reference to where to find
the rest of the information covering keyboard input.
Bob
> (Once again, such
> text must not be interpreted too literally, because, e.g., commands
> like "C-x 5 0" are definitely "keyboard input", but affect something
> other than the selected window.)
>
Yes.
>
>
>
> > > Plus, if we want to see any changes in buffer-to-window mappings
>
> > > during the course of a function, we must invoke redisplay.
>
> >
>
> > Not normally, no. Normally, you select the frame and the window, and
>
> > then redisplay will do the rest automatically after your command
>
> > completes. To need some change displayed in the middle of a command
>
> > is unusual.
>
Okay.
>
> > I think temporarily displaying a frame from the stack is
>
> > a useful visual technique that would see more use were it
>
> > simpler to implement.
>
>
>
> "Useful" does not contradict "unusual". Because it's unusual, finding
>
> the details about achieving these goals could legitimately be somewhat
>
> harder than for the more popular use cases.
>
So you are saying it may be hard yet potentially worthwhile
to do?
>
>
> > > It is the description of the interrelations of these things that
>
> > > is not described in a single place anywhere, especially with code
> samples,
>
> > > making it difficult for programmers to see what must be done.
>
> >
>
> > I don't understand why a complex task involving several steps must
>
> > necessarily be described in a single place.
>
> >
>
> > The implementation may be complex now but the user-level concept
>
> > is not.
>
>
>
> I wasn't talking about the implementation. I was talking about the
>
> task of a Lisp programmer who needs to select a window on another
>
> frame and make sure the frame is raised and input focus is redirected
>
> to it. This task is more complex than just selecting a window on the
>
> currently selected frame.
>
>
>
> > I think this seems complex to you because you know many of the
>
> > intricacies of what it takes, but from a user perspective, it is
>
> > one thing.
>
>
>
> I disagree, and not because of my developer experience, but because of
>
> my user experience.
>
So we see this differently. Thanks for the time discussing it.
Bob
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-12-16 22:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-12-12 15:39 Suggestion: Add discussion of input focus handling to select-window; add select-frame-window Robert Weiner
2017-12-12 18:13 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-12 18:49 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-12 20:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-12 21:29 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-12 21:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-12 20:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-12 21:19 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-13 8:49 ` martin rudalics
2017-12-13 13:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-13 14:37 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-13 19:29 ` martin rudalics
2017-12-13 20:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-13 22:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-14 3:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-14 15:01 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-14 20:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-14 23:43 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-15 1:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-16 16:11 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 16:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 17:23 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 16:27 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 16:21 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 16:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 17:04 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 17:15 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 17:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 18:16 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 19:18 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-16 19:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 20:52 ` Robert Weiner
2017-12-22 10:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-16 22:44 ` Robert Weiner [this message]
2017-12-13 14:51 ` Robert Weiner
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