From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_Aptel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Dynamic loading progress Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:44:08 +0100 Message-ID: References: <54D80098.3020209@cs.ucla.edu> <54D85304.1030600@cs.ucla.edu> <54D9AC29.2020603@cs.ucla.edu> <54DA8539.1020905@cs.ucla.edu> <87zj8ktq8f.fsf@lifelogs.com> <54DD6413.1000403@cs.ucla.edu> <83wq3m436s.fsf@gnu.org> <54DDEB4D.5040300@dancol> <83egpt4zz6.fsf@gnu.org> <54DE12E9.5040606@dancol.org> <85twypiiug.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83zj8g3n16.fsf@gnu.org> <857fvkik49.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83lhk0wkfl.fsf@gnu.org> <83k2zkwig5.fsf@gnu.org> <85k2zkgg8t.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83bnkvuhop.fsf@gnu.org> <87iof2lapd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1424094334 11835 80.91.229.3 (16 Feb 2015 13:45:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:45:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stephen Leake , Stefan Monnier , Emacs development discussions To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 16 14:45:33 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLzP-0003yj-BF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:45:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39563 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLzO-00086B-Pl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:45:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52080) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLyK-0006k6-JD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:44:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLyD-0003aK-Bo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:44:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-f178.google.com ([209.85.223.178]:37425) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLy5-0003Yz-SU; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:44:09 -0500 Original-Received: by iecrl12 with SMTP id rl12so31512034iec.4; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:44:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=odmOjppi7LMdo+0gQlOjl29tNLQgbrtjK3dVUG4CeDg=; b=VQNiQw58W9WafNEVtktYiUa9JISAtWfBukGBDnLWL4CeGdOOh15m4VRA17+MpDGJ+5 qvyTZwtJfeTkd+QMLZQIzX46Csu2gGQtXvoQ972j2FT7tolPiX2fzwsCp6ayWJfeDwCU vtKakgGARNwVg5sXSOeI5HJ7azXMSp2UamEFtYBUcHbmNiYDxoWxhi9gQycTTWgc7Z5q u/ho1hQDXHipjmanUOdh67Otl9P24Rok8GkfbsqJ+ezl7ultpZNcGft64WkFfbUDaLzZ JYiyDRddc8YMplOwL6LPhH6XzwJqqXu7wcAFqw7aQS1vH8aQ9sw+Xj9woAZ8CzbsTx5W d2Wg== X-Received: by 10.107.160.72 with SMTP id j69mr30309211ioe.0.1424094248736; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:44:08 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.36.19.71 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:44:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87iof2lapd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Google-Sender-Auth: JWMe4OEKkCvWvAHILVxLGS1fkqg X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.223.178 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:183158 Archived-At: I've let this sit for a few days, didn't expect so much feedback, good! I was in favor of a tight integration (like Linux kernel modules which are in the same repository as the kernel) about after reading everything I'm not sure what to think anymore. Keeping modules uptodate with Emacs while also backporting features to older Emacs is insane, that's for sure. In any case rewriting current modules is not a problem, they are very simple and meant as examples/POCs. On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > No, it simply means that the current modules are programmed by people > who know about dlopen and Emacs internals and have not thought about > designing a runtime environment for the modules. I'm far from an expert, yes. I'm just the guy who wanted to extend Emacs in C without recompiling it and acted on it. A real FFI would be better than a module API but I'm not sure how to handle certain things: making/passing struct pointers and callbacks, mainly. I don't know if it can be efficient either. > Daniel's proposal makes a lot of sense, and is better than the current > S?XEmacs design. Daniel's proposal is very good yes, it's the most convincing solution I think. And as he said the FFI can be implemented on top of it. I just hope all the type conversion and intern() calls won't ruin performances.