From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: i18n/l10n summary Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:18:09 +0900 Message-ID: References: <4C7FB375-566B-4D7B-8BD6-0B140261AA55@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_727D2D3B-598D-4D68-B319-12CFD229BA74" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537511883 14673 195.159.176.226 (21 Sep 2018 06:38:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 06:38:03 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 21 08:37:59 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g3F4g-0003ii-Sl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:37:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54032 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g3F6n-0005QS-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 02:40:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53784) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g3Cti-0002b4-6s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:18:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g3Ctb-0007Wd-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:18:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]:42922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g3Ctb-0007EC-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:18:23 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id y4-v6so5428337pgp.9 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:18:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=W+lFY9yAn3L3w3+msa3tVqReDBIU1GAR6qD+b49KvY8=; b=mFbEkOUi7AKF10c+ECLOh0tAb29j6t7autm7oOOetaYt1QfyF59eY8FTvxb9SN1Ywe Fa+Q320LlhDlAfSmU88rgQm8EX5OBjKWbWHg5ol+5HIexu/3iOiK8gWgyeZ7m4bFuJGk IWuwsLl5XE+sB9U822eEvFshSqmtXcQB+qRxc4wMPdp7i42Mv9czIZVjnM4NjoERDUoi 5kZo4n95y+w5/B+xp7+HPgeNw9yZ6g0vuhrmOAzfRuR6fK/Isu2CkA4Ng37qdfUuBObR 0stRCGy01YF4CO0Bt3at3pdZUFKeRMSLtxA6rstoO+D3M9PROCbGZMUPjmgVYkNEx0mo TmYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=W+lFY9yAn3L3w3+msa3tVqReDBIU1GAR6qD+b49KvY8=; b=tZkUefC1+NmeVKzM4gO+LfSqietAHMS40U/IXGmLJ7GKcNeHZFrTmp4vMdwNmz2B3i ygaoduVISlJXH38vHniGg1Bv615q8uua+yJvy5/ZTOAtW3fFnm9YJ09Ee7H9hcXfxVyL JlA4vbqBfRxsCR0ILwLFTH8ePUkM+IRIx9NgcgRUB+sEjTeb0bH9MUa2Yw7EaVPyvxmS ttxP0st5cA5r0ud5aDCG5ZeqEIqxnpv1xdh0PmTyRj6Lspw80MOXQTdz2shri6XbdzJH dYQeBG7hYsyliCjIURyWmXrzeQJmDI9r19IiNJkI/xreAzTrIInZb2iX0MenUNNbmT7b qiqw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DFoTau1x3oWiY7xyBRFdeGzup14RW9yA4sNxvthhqRIVuCGU7C bMn7+ezax69m0ZW8jBvc45zAwtuG X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbNbgf2RR8nV4hSG166KchcQuZ3QCoG7/j5Uci9BiUVoZS9gJNpChuXA+o1dg+vjigpTyv8vg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e645:: with SMTP id p5-v6mr5827112pgj.218.1537503500403; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.179.5] (mo183-72-6-15.air.mopera.net. [183.72.6.15]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u184-v6sm45888348pgd.46.2018.09.20.21.18.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:18:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C7FB375-566B-4D7B-8BD6-0B140261AA55@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 02:39:53 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229983 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_727D2D3B-598D-4D68-B319-12CFD229BA74 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1) packages.el I just want to remind interested parties that packages.el has seen most = of its strings "straightened" so that they don't rely on English = grammatical structures (s for plurals, etc.) The modifications changed strings like: "3 packages have been updated" into "Number of updated packages: 3" as well as a few other things. I'd like to thank Eli, Noam and a few others (sorry that I forgot your = names) for the coding hints. 2) other packages with user facing strings There are lots of packages that have user facing strings, and most of = them use code to produce English grammar structures (a simple case is if = a number is greater than 1 then add an "s" to the string). Such code = should be fixed to remove the reliance on English grammatical = structures. Similarly, code constructs that create a given word order ( = (concat "Nominal group" "Verbal group" "Nominal group", for ex) must be = fixed so that they are the most "natural language" agnostic possible. It would be nice if people check the packages.el modifications and try = to adapt other packages in the same spirit. 3) I heard that Xemacs had the infrastructure required to support = gettext are there people here familiar with this aspect of Xemacs ? Jean-Christophe=20 > On Apr 25, 2018, at 21:58, Jean-Christophe Helary = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On May 28, 2017, at 14:29, Jean-Christophe Helary = > wrote: >>=20 >> The discussion so far seems to point at modifying 'message' and the = likes so that developers don't have to bother with any l10n mechanism on = their part (besides for writing clean strings). >=20 > Since there does not seem to be an agreement on the "straightening" of = the package.el strings that I posted here (even though Eli seemed to be = fine with them and nobody raised any objection), I'm going to start = working on other packages and I will continue to send patches here. >=20 > Eventually somebody will see why that is important and will commit my = package.el modifications *or* tell me why they are not acceptable (which = I'm totally fine with btw) :) >=20 >=20 > Jean-Christophe Helary > ----------------------------------------------- > http://mac4translators.blogspot.com = @brandelune >=20 >=20 Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune --Apple-Mail=_727D2D3B-598D-4D68-B319-12CFD229BA74 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii 1) = packages.el

I just = want to remind interested parties that packages.el has seen most of its = strings "straightened" so that they don't rely on English grammatical = structures (s for plurals, etc.)

The modifications changed strings like:

"3 packages have been = updated"

into

"Number of updated packages: 3"

as well as a few other = things.

I'd = like to thank Eli, Noam and a few others (sorry that I forgot your = names) for the coding hints.

2) other packages with user facing = strings

There = are lots of packages that have user facing strings, and most of them use = code to produce English grammar structures (a simple case is if a number = is greater than 1 then add an "s" to the string). Such code should be = fixed to remove the reliance on English grammatical structures. = Similarly, code constructs that create a given word order ( (concat = "Nominal group" "Verbal group" "Nominal group", for ex) must be fixed so = that they are the most "natural language" agnostic possible.

It would be nice if = people check the packages.el modifications and try to adapt other = packages in the same spirit.

3) I heard that Xemacs had the = infrastructure required to support gettext are there people here = familiar with this aspect of Xemacs ?

Jean-Christophe 

On Apr 25, 2018, at 21:58, Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:


On May = 28, 2017, at 14:29, Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:

The discussion so far seems to = point at modifying 'message' and the likes so that developers don't have = to bother with any l10n mechanism on their part (besides for = writing clean strings).

Since there does not seem to be an agreement on the = "straightening" of the package.el strings that I posted here (even = though Eli seemed to be fine with them and nobody raised any objection), = I'm going to start working on other packages and I will continue to send = patches here.

Eventually somebody will see why that is important and will = commit my package.el modifications *or* tell me why they are not = acceptable (which I'm totally fine with btw) :)


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune



Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


= --Apple-Mail=_727D2D3B-598D-4D68-B319-12CFD229BA74--