From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuan Fu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default emacs init file location confusion Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 13:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83y2ukc55g.fsf@gnu.org> <85C8025D-ACFD-4DEB-B030-E46B3109323E@gnu.org> <83lfqjckjn.fsf@gnu.org> <83blrfci4q.fsf@gnu.org> <837e23chdm.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhezb0jw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="122890"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: smartlitchi@gmail.com, Robert Pluim , lokedhs@gmail.com, Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 19:53:44 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iotz5-000TDu-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 19:53:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54966 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iotz4-0002Zy-56 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:53:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38201) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iotyx-0002Wn-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:53:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iotyw-0001i4-Md for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:53:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qv1-xf31.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f31]:40221) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iotyu-0001ft-Rw; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:53:32 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qv1-xf31.google.com with SMTP id dp13so312183qvb.7; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 10:53:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=oWvtIxa1eH7PKe5Zt0Eg+R74dYTwOuuwiJ+JW2dBJwQ=; b=JWKG2xogF3AeZG6Jg+aoZIqav6jE49de1N7RfsFzgZcWyW5U5qJMH6/A8Xvk+OH/wq D76s7GaKnUfRLNbFqSWjeMZISFTBtZipRGcGBIulvtH7vRyoxfntd2v/scsrO1BJRTMi TfQvXhLxr16eukLx+yXHYYXWJh9FERZB1damyGdG0/3bAga1A/fdjXQ6zKuns6/GVuQG RM4rXWePYrC9Xa1A22lxQGN1OWvfuvhO33L2I546RJJbyTcWvR9tySastW/moL0ecKEV OK2c9G3iHnAh9/S430OTqCXTAaGmBLOV9WZlNxDAJeQFnbykbytcg3dKIp/PJud8fStR PmXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=oWvtIxa1eH7PKe5Zt0Eg+R74dYTwOuuwiJ+JW2dBJwQ=; b=FZ3r9szy/b3ax/w1kfdWW25ChtngixTlFSwI8VID5TWpYdJqXhHIE8jmwbD3uLrb1O K5FhG5Z67MTFWy1d9fcwV1KV85sWin2XGsbbhJKwVaQP1r9Y0yBbk1IroF1OVRs3oNkJ OoKvPPjGU6Pd4KvGCM+OvBiOeIp/kKdnKJgqootRISzfS3h1jKPNQpWKH/C3Uwyb90Xf qSVJxdL5IF+f2hk5DxODUH56x2R0Rp1cxWVbVwUUJOwgo/Z7EH6AowPwx4QiJ+HIwaLs vvU21M21qbrg1oSNaLqYNK+AQLCraVuCs2F4dv9l/ykv+dxkL2tkSZXcZ9DF0WXbWPIB 2+Iw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWIejEW6NUCC9UX4IlhVdRC1q2Gm+7rml99E7tswratcLgmB/iO m755mW1WtZbMnlf0Yz/pQSqBCK8szbXADg6r X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzpvOsdM+15KTs0U+h2IvTcBonBcMwY7kMf/4z2xK2qo7bLGO28SMChD08MXcQAlt9ZP06quQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e4c1:: with SMTP id g1mr805689qvm.45.1578423211822; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 10:53:31 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-174-60-229-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [174.60.229.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k62sm209131qkc.95.2020.01.07.10.53.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Jan 2020 10:53:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83zhezb0jw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f31 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:244091 Archived-At: > The issue at hand is what happens when neither of these exists at > startup time. So your proposal would not have helped here. >=20 > We can, of course, change the preference to the opposite one when none > of the two candidates exist, if that's what people prefer. >=20 >> In any case, we should probably be more proactive about the problem: = if >> both exist we should emit a clear and visible warning. >=20 > Again, that's not the situation we are discussing. >=20 >>> The way to prevent the above is described in NEWS, btw. >>=20 >> I think this effect is sufficiently major that we can't just say "you >> should have read the NEWS". >=20 > The idea was that very few will want that workaround. If everyone > will want it, we should probably just summarily remove the XDG > support. I think the problem isn=E2=80=99t the preference of either location, but = the fact that this default location changed and new users are very = likely to be confused by it. If we release Emacs 27, many of the = tutorials out there won=E2=80=99t update to address this change. This = scenario is likely to happen: a new user installed Emacs 27 and run it = just to see it works. Then he/she added .emacs.d/init.el following a = tutorial, but none of his/her configuration take effect. He/she would = almost certainly have no idea what=E2=80=99s the problem. In fact, = he/she would probably suspect that there=E2=80=99s problem with the = configuration code. Instead of focusing on which default location to use, we can do what VIM = does (IIRC): if no configuration file is found, prompt user when = creating one. I remember that VIM says =E2=80=9Cyou don=E2=80=99t have a = configuration file, and we are creating one at ~/.vimrc, is that ok? = =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D I think this way the user is clear where the config = file is, and the problem I describes above wouldn=E2=80=99t happen. This = should only happen when Emacs is running interactively though. Yuan=