From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: New start up splash screen annoyance... Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:10:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190819544 21740 80.91.229.12 (26 Sep 2007 15:12:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stefan Monnier" , "Kenichi Handa" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 26 17:12:18 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IaYYZ-0004k7-Qn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaYYW-0000rp-5V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:12:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IaYYS-0000rd-9K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:12:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IaYYP-0000pP-Ji for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:11:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaYYP-0000pG-9l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:11:57 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IaYYJ-0002KW-SY; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:11:52 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id l8QFBmwp024942; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:11:48 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l8Q74ahM023206; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:11:47 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-76-1.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3244389651190819420; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:10:20 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-reply-to: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79911 Archived-At: > > I agree, and I even more like three lines tooltip as this > > for this case: > > > mouse-1: select (drag to resize) > > mouse-2: maximize > > mouse-3: delete > > > But, for echo area, I prefer one line tooltip. > > I think that echo-area tooltips deserve to be massaged to avoid > this kind of mess: Drew uses a single-line vry-long > minibuffer-only frame, so any multiline message in the echo area > is undesirable. David OTOH seems to use the more common > 80-columns frame with its own resizable echo-area, so long > text is bad but multiple lines are not. > > To deal with both situations, we'll need for Emacs to automatically adjust > the message's format to the minibuffer's shape. > E.g. the messages could be spread over several lines and an option would > make Emacs put those lines back together with something like > > (mapconcat 'identity (split-string MSG "\n") " | ") > > this way, Drew (and myself as well since I use a similar setup) could just > set this variable and not suffer from other people's preference for > multiple lines. Good point, and sounds good to me. Whatever the solution design, you've expressed the echo-area concern well. It's also good that you separated two of the strands of the discussion. Much of what I was saying was not about single vs multiple lines or echo area vs tooltip. It was about keeping the text for this kind of help to a minimum - not adding unnecessary verbage. I mixed in a request to not add newlines gratuitously that was more pertinent to the echo-area point that you clarified, and doing so I confused things.