From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Simple Tasks, new TODO category Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:29:48 -0800 Message-ID: References: <479A140D.7060005@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1201282211 24689 80.91.229.12 (25 Jan 2008 17:30:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dan Nicolaescu , tomas@tuxteam.de, "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , =?Windows-1252?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Jason Rumney" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 25 18:30:29 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JISNo-0007YE-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:30:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JISNN-0000yZ-OW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:30:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JISNJ-0000yR-FM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:29:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JISNG-0000xD-Qv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:29:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JISNG-0000x8-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:29:54 -0500 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JISNC-0006Pg-MR; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:29:51 -0500 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m0PHTkbh030428; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:29:46 -0700 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m0O49FkY029955; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:29:45 -0700 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3537317231201282184; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:29:44 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.73.144) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:29:44 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <479A140D.7060005@gnu.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:87498 Archived-At: > >>> A non-printable seems very obscure, though. I'd think using a (seldom) > >>> printable (with a way to escape it, of course) might be more friendly. > >>> Why not use underscore, as GTK does (and translate > >>> appropriately to the target platform)? > >>> > >> XEmacs uses %_, which is even less likely to be used in a menu item > >> name, and has the benefit of not appearing in any key binding so we > >> wouldn't have to do any escaping of key bindings that are > >> automatically added to the menu. > > > > Sorry to chime in once more, but I again get the impression > > that you are speaking about giving a special interpretation to a > > displayable character that might appear in a menu item, and that > > you are trying to find a character or string that is "less likely > > to be used in a menu item name". > > GUI toolkits do this already. If the character(s) used are rare enough > that it is unlikely to break existing code, and the special purpose is > well documented, I don't see where the harm is. Fixing the problem for > any cases that do break will be simple, and using the characters already > used by XEmacs for 5 years will make it likely that any such problems > have already been dealt with. Well, I don't really want to argue about it. I'll just go on record as saying that it is a (classic) mistake. We should at least provide an escape syntax for such a "special" character. IIRC, Lennart long ago treated `&' as such a special char for just this purpose in some of his code. I had a menu item that used `&' to abbreviate `and', and bingo - busted. I even use a pilcro (the "rare" paragraph symbol) to abbreviate "Paragraph" in some menus. Someone might even have a menu to let you insert special characters that are difficult to type in some contexts. It's a mistake to assume that menu items will not include some "rare" character. Don't forget too that there are menu items that are constructed dynamically. They include Imenu items, buffer names, and frame names. And someone might use :keys for a key description that includes a "special" char. Do you really think that we won't encounter "special" chars or strings in someone's variable name or buffer name or key description or (heaven forbid) special-character menu? This sounds like a bad idea to me, and an unnecessary one AFAICT. But do as you like. (FWIW, I haven't seen the reason for going this route instead of using a non-printable character, but I haven't followed the thread closely.)