From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC menu ? Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 23:20:11 +0900 Message-ID: References: <878tk1erfz.fsf@holos> <87y3s1ll4o.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499350832 13604 195.159.176.226 (6 Jul 2017 14:20:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 14:20:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 06 16:20:25 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dT7dm-00033V-HQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:20:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51714 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT7dr-00029l-Oe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:20:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40827) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT7dl-00029e-Iy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT7dh-0002yH-4t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:20:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]:36193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dT7dg-0002wz-Uy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:20:17 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id q86so1705175pfl.3 for ; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QKzjo05aBquENaZ1uLdMyPYMrIcUVmC8tsmUzzM6WTw=; b=jARGJ0oGu7S+CuADjoTXdk55X2O9+H2zKNXkEwissBII6US4yh3AEdrmRVy8UjDduf 4r3idIFyEhHBAAIu6wiz37RdunwwZ/4C0ewakRIV2/V9rLrQFnYX9KjQqEjBAu3ZqEBO SBnfp1Wg1JV1WLQMR+az13Pk7sI2lzQhMhdIYzFJYm1zVwKaMkjIlsTdhZi3uKuf2QfN Dq2fQwDadWVujLMns7kPclO92bhqh2PKWOgvtyIs2E1+OGm0wW1odOF5lZWKDsijQRWK YFHIVV9Abox/jc/cq7KBS6/9EjqBTLawmYPQHhH+T8T8oxJEmCxIBViWCTW78SkE+1Xw vFHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QKzjo05aBquENaZ1uLdMyPYMrIcUVmC8tsmUzzM6WTw=; b=N0MyRtSlzlzE/mOsQOCOKqP63H7F67lG/iGnL9yH46LA2xbl4EnFbSWvOGPUqgaehd co1vrUIoMnPNl/fS6i5PqCLod1mnnhvQG+p0JkiGVILakC+7tI9dJIn01AVeuQb54AH4 RTzf4gAol/1KpXqwbzsxBRW+QOORu5UWejpCN/K82Xh84TeJ9vZ41yQ6HpzQgETT79/w ZmcEN/eXJmrHIdEjtYbLAcw5Tm9ap4ae/2qu8bN7v04rQY3uPhlrzXgYMAStcAlZK01s TTwbetIK+VU6S7Z5XrcGDNPXn2ibQTSsH1nYSbK1FaY+AoGNyJ/hpv1yrAj80Wzwg0zC q6cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113Ny8IWmK2aooDS0CrnV7VIwFnOB8R18jr01vPqdOktcXWZmIi2 HGY/CHYdgsU3EIinv78= X-Received: by 10.98.236.137 with SMTP id e9mr25849844pfm.39.1499350815580; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.24.55] (pl2587.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp. [128.53.196.27]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y2sm424488pgy.60.2017.07.06.07.20.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:20:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y3s1ll4o.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216223 Archived-At: > On Jul 6, 2017, at 23:01, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >=20 > On Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:27:12 -0400 Mark Oteiza = wrote:=20 >=20 > MO> Sarcasm aside, if you had ever flipped through the Emacs manual or > MO> scrolled through a list of keybindings, you would have been aware = of VC. >=20 > I think menu-driven UI discovery is fun and an essential part of the = GUI > experience. We should not expect users to be diligent readers[1]. Indeed. My original question was a git question and John replied with a = vc answer, which was of course the best possible answer but I had git in = mind and would not have thought of checking for vc features (especially = since it has been repeated here that native git support in emacs was not = complete, or something like that). So it is not really an issue that features are discoverable or not, or = documented or not, it is about knowing what you are looking for in the = first place. If the VC menu had been right there, I would have probably = tested "Compare with base version" or "Show other version" and would = have *discovered* that feature, and then would have I checked the manual = to see what it actually does and what the other vc functions do, but = only after seeing that VC functions work good enough for git issues. Jean-Christophe=20 > Ted >=20 > [1] as previously posted: >=20 > Rule #1 of writing manuals: They Won't Read It.=20 No, it's "They don't know where to start, and it's 643 pages, so it's = always for when one has the time, which is not often."=