From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:05:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89kw0hl.fsf@gnus.org> <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> <83bl5kro2i.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15102"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: philipk@posteo.net, Eli Zaretskii , danflscr@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 27 00:06:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJNW0-0003dV-BL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273096 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 26.08.2021 23:51, Arthur Miller wrote: > >>> The point is, someone who has never contributed before can more easily see all >>> bugs/PRs/discussions from the outside, and when they file a PR, see the checks >>> succeed or fail (with specific complaints and recommendations) without having to >>> involve a live person. >> Hmm, some projects have thousands of issues, some remove solved issues. I am not >> sure it is so easily discoverable. Also I see a lot of comments on gh advising >> users to first search for the issue before posting, which makes me thing that >> people are not so good to "look first" if issue is already solved. > > I didn't mean to say it's perfect, just more manageable. > > And, like you say, a lot of users are already "trained" to look for prior > discussions, prior issues, etc. I ment they are not :-). Seems like many people are "asking first" instead of "searching first". That is how I intepret tips on some github projects, to search first before they report an issue. If I find something problematic i usually do a web search, and than if SX, Reddit and Google return nothing useful, than I consider sending a mail to the list. That is why there are very few bugs I have reported :). > > We see people on Emacs Help asking similar questions over and over. > >>> The ability to avoid bothering anyone directly (and risk a negative reception) >>> can help avoid some of the worries. >> Maybe Emacs project should be better at informing users about Emacs bug >> tracker: >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs >> and this one: >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/ >> and debbugs package for browsing bugs directly from Emacs? > > They should be informed, yes, but our antiquated bug tracker is the main > technical weak point of the project. Some of the previous messages which > referred to difficulties in email-based workflow were actually about > "email-based Debbugs workflow". I understand. Now I don't want to be a devil's advocate here, but for me M-x debbugs-gnu is a bit slow to load into Emacs, but once loaded I think it is not much worse Githubs "issues" list on any project. I think it is preferable since I can see all bugs back to version 23, instead of having to click through pages on github. Maybe there is some better interface to github web service, I haven't tried their cli tool, maybe I should, but I don't know. When I open a bug repport in debbugs-gnu I see entire mailing list tree and I also can click on any of messages and S-W to send a reply, regardless of how old it is. But yes, the difference is that on the web, any random user who is interested about a project, can go to project page, and look through the list of "issues". It is not so straightforward with Emacs indeed.