From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 15:00:25 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <875ys2lyt0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wnkhlxb9.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36094"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 06 15:03:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1muEaF-0009EH-Is for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281109 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> I suggested hashmap serialzied to/from file. I used such approach >> myself for key-value pairs. It worked fine for me, it was quite simple >> to read/write it. Currently I am testing a thing, and I use just assoc >> list to read/write it to a file, and it works fine for me too. > > I think the ideal choice would either be dbm (and the GNU variant, gdbm, > which improves upon it in every area) or recutils. > > Which still raises the other important question of how to serialize > data, and how to do it better than `read' and `print'. > >> Just because everyone uses sqlite is maybe not the best argument, but >> anyway, sqlite is maybe faster when serializing that reading/writing >> lisp objects. I don't know, I am not familiar so much with elisp vs >> sqlite. Also, there are many uses for relational databse than just >> persisting user settings. I am thinking of desktop applications a l=C3= =A1 >> Access/Excel and similar. > > What is special about the settings of MS Access or MS Excel that warrant > a relational database for storing them? It is nothing about settings of neither of those. That is not why people us= e those applications. They are used to take in and analyze data, collect research etc. People use those to create entire applications and to automate office works= in offices, research etc. Reasons why they choose MS Office varies, but the most important are: econo= mics, familiarity and ease of use. For the economics: if you have a big organization, several thousand people, getting in a new application into the organization can be quite difficult a= nd costly. In a regional hospital I did some consulting for, anything had to g= o through a gigantic IT system with lots of people who all has something impo= rtant to say when a decision is made. However, an access db file is just a docume= nt, and MS Office is already used and licensed, so it is very handy to use. I suggested for one project to replace their research db with sqlite and I promised to build functionally same gui with TCL, but it was out of questio= n to install tcl runtime. The other problem iss familiarity. When you have a personell, in ther late years, being working there for like 20, 30, 40 years; they are not so = very welcomming to any changes, new tools etc. Adding even a simple button to pr= ess to print out bunch of post addresses on label stickers can be challenging a= nd need thorough introduction. They simply forgett it was there at all, or whe= re it is, they have to write a paper how to open the document and lots of such stuff. Replacing entire application in such system with something else mean= s a lots of eduction on work hours, hiring consults to held courses etc, so it = is not something big organizations like.=20 Also economists love their Excell; I have seen lots of in-house and custom = build tools for analyzing data, repporting, etc. They don't care much about what technology is used as long as they can do it in Excell because they don't h= ave time to learn some computer application (or don't care), they don't care ab= out licensing, software freedom issues etc. Those I have met live just in completely, completely different world then we, when it comes to computing = and what technology they use.