From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Helpful in Emacs? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 14:35:47 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10352"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: me@wilfred.me.uk, Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 09 14:37:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJJJ-0002U7-Px for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 14:37:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60466 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJJG-00083g-OQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:37:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56432) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJHY-0006Rg-Ai for emacs-devel@gnu.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274443 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> Any chance of getting Helpful, https://github.com/Wilfred/helpful, into official >> Emacs? In the contributor list I see some familiar names which already >> contributed to Emas, so they have signed FSF papers, but also some unkown ones >> too. > > FWIW, here's my take on this: > > 1. helpful.el has several useful features. They should be evaluated > one by one with the aim to integrate them in a clean way into the > built-in help.el et al libraries. Such an evaluation would likely > show that some features are well suited for the default help system. > Maybe others we would want as optional features. Maybe other features > still are better left in an external package. > > 2. Doing the above job well would presumably leave little reason to > distribute helpful.el together with Emacs. A week or two ago I was actually looking at Emacs help code. I wanted to bring in the source code as well as references into help lookup, but honestly, I would rather prefer to just include helpful instead of re-implementing everything. If the authors have signed the paperwork, I see no reason why not just include it. Also original help lookup could be left as low-resource, faster solution for people who prefer to spend less resources on help lookup, while helpful could be enabled by a custom variable, something like show extended help or as a minor mode. > 3. Before we can even start thinking of doing any of this, we will > need to sort the copyright assignments. This to my mind means that Yes. That was my thought, I wanted to check is there is interest from emacs devs and I have CC-ed Willfred because he is the only one that can answer the paper-status I guess, and if there is interest from his and other helpful-devs side to get this included. > need to sort the copyright assignments. This to my mind means that > the next step to make meaningful progress here is to get the module > onto GNU ELPA. Once that is done, points 1 and 2 are mostly "only" a > matter of copying in the code. > > If you would like to work together with the helpful.el maintainers to > get the package onto GNU ELPA, that would be worthwhile and > appreciated, I think. I'll help with what I can of course, but I am probably not of much help here. I have never contributed to Elpa myself :). By the way, there are probably no problems of getting Helpful into "Nelpa" (non-gnu elpa), and it already is in Melpa, so the access for new users is not far away. I would though really like to see it as a complement to built-in help out of the box.