From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Patch: perform autoloading when docs is missing from autoload object Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:34:54 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ee9o3cqj.fsf@gnus.org> <87o88rxpvy.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl4qt3y3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26570"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 18 19:36:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mReFw-0006b6-LQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:36:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mReFu-0006G8-PS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 13:36:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46786) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mReEu-0005Yf-EZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 13:35:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-db8eur05olkn2106.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.89.106]:51652 helo=EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mReEs-0006X0-ON for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 13:35:00 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=M0/3qt3Xl0V971FOloO5TwclaTNByszznXgp2Hj3Fpd7d+yLmieUM7WB+ahz1kc3YVfRz3JAnxtZKY2vmjiDsZNXzfe7wtx1tCklwfgbhq8gHuVEB331zoM27hyOzHaSWxHc8cqkYZkt0faJBRGvIUmsxJ2eVjUPpEHGMIno56TPoOExt4Jzh7MPvNy7z+hAp+J6C0TTpv+KhuH9u3qcleiTVJs0CHtIu2GT5+9I6L7UHpn42xj8JoX3vciGAGfNyq5M1YtwPljqTS3IhpM+vNgdG4PhqlSjocNzKIi/OWOsIYY40tXShsR/CxuA/Ub5i4tJmwfZCImaOxIbdKocHw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=7s402YFO3sSn1VcbR/LIJ8EX0o1B0odyxmBF4fMCXzs=; b=Jap9t/9wKyU3WMzq+OX7ilpyTQOBUI+HdTx//PN8d1mEzYa1+BqGiCrYyRusasy65OgHyWwfdY2siL504ZjQkIE1CwEoiZ/3J+uTQLGu1FvPj4EfLO3l+4OB20uT/JMxWZXVag79tawk+DRaUiR9TWlsx0Wycb43VmQcHvZigYXoloM3Fs9BXDh+6vU62whELDTTGeK2iTIBWxpOPnORusThRuHookx/hSMT5Ye5Sy7ehEWTSDAz9pDka1ZulaZ8928vujSen7Lysw/pPS8mTLIW5aMAS//9B6kMlOoMGpnS7tmk+J4/E7U2SGHTwS0CxszhRvwuIeh4wRSvrbIaEw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=7s402YFO3sSn1VcbR/LIJ8EX0o1B0odyxmBF4fMCXzs=; b=U4JkbNC9Dfv+osejZlRYZXVdmuFhE5mESJrdVR2naH8EWd+6O/7qp7EB+S0tkMvblkD4E8cq/Ujj1D35aNxXbZGGmHWhXszzVOl5GI+LXwFIgJOD+EuJk417vV2CXIk+csaB6f00s6WybK0RkLIw78OgglOTZtfSMNM+Coqo5x2jcFW3fMyc9j+e6nb/Hp6jH1+ysjxR0HIJKO3WNaS1sYmFbaUld3sgB3nX2s/3DjAwwMbtMBa/Hiki8JPCg9PaqNR6fBifdZodRWsMNoDdkfMR2Ar4Lop2qD6s0i3yLw9YDY5e6Dc607Sf+fFaQ/MB6cQrH6T07s7tYAsx+b06Dw== Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) by AM0PR09MB4227.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:193::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4523.15; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 17:34:55 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c55c:ece5:bed2:a9dc]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c55c:ece5:bed2:a9dc%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4523.018; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 17:34:55 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:03:16 +0000") X-TMN: [SMJkQfIRHDU4a1u1A6WhLFYRikwLjZu0] X-ClientProxiedBy: AS9PR06CA0074.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:464::20) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87zgs93hz5.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by AS9PR06CA0074.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:464::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4523.16 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 17:34:55 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: ff410295-efc1-4df8-790d-08d97acaa115 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0PR09MB4227: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: EDSGOI1BNaggS8tMjXQW6A3DLQYQgdP8HpwAg0HkrbPsB5YpRRRz3udmsXlBmypWJOGWEAyZAxLpxCEvogmB+1aTfUq0n8yHGn0DLvCEd9KVPmiCxpICJ/+yMqi8xWTiVjw2hcI0BrvTmXJIvp6lBBtVO1I6C5OQ3QyLTeuf7Boo91r0VjzMLCRXz8KjwzpFsFLZN7/bhK4OhfSqVKdee6/EunZCuJzZhSmjU6p6bciVCVW/stsvn1ozWtEkrS0LVwO6+5SMqTgU5LccOq0w0e0fD50Qrex9WZ4Sxwm5/Mp8Jrd2Ru6siGWtl4URRFe1FbKWASle23276ZZd6gp/mGU3zcWyqAzjVbojTIa0soIlCvMFIIsaWfFxaXW85FLR3gOYVbMxQ3tlS4/wUHJNzRUQXD0KT22W4U9OcvzSS1SxWasayT5izU0PBqkcjd6f X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: LPZUgkDKSRbtXpKgKv4zxLoKj1fnC9X7QlG+VErHh3ShD+xD9AFHNB5MjUDONYSYIhIkcqlMmseNLGKp8buXhcerPDOzehhjM58hrBkC5WSK3BS0uuejhHX7sq6UK2QC8HKcEDxzcEAg/L1J54480A== X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-3174-20-msonline-outlook-72e6e.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ff410295-efc1-4df8-790d-08d97acaa115 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2021 17:34:55.7184 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR09MB4227 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.89.106; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275019 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> It is quite likely that you want to use the >> library if you've looked up the symbol in a >> *Help* buffer, so why not, indeed, just load >> it at that point? > > It's also quite likely - even more likely IMO > - that you do NOT want to use (load) the > library - you just wanted to check the doc of > something in it. > > "Just load it" isn't right. Let _users_ load > it when they want to. That's trivial to do. > > If you added an option that does such eager > loading, that would be one thing. But to > "just load" unconditionally would be very > wrong, IMHO. > >> So I think I'd be fine with adding the proposed >> functionality. If there are people that don't >> want this, we can add a user option to switch it off. > > That's wrong. Add an option to switch it > on, if you want to provide such an optional > behavior. :) Yes I agree with you. That option is in the patch already, and the default is 'nil'. Haven't you looked at it? Everything is "as-before" until user actively toggles that option on: (defcustom help-enable-symbol-autoload nil "Perform autoload when documentation is not present in autoload object." :type 'boolean :group 'help :version "28.1")