From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Helpful in Emacs? 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274472 Archived-At: Eduardo Ochs writes: > On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 12:22, Daniel Mart=C3=ADn wro= te: >> >> Arthur Miller writes: >> >> > A week or two ago I was actually looking at Emacs help code. I wanted = to bring >> > in the source code as well as references into help lookup, but honestl= y, I would >> > rather prefer to just include helpful instead of re-implementing every= thing. If >> > the authors have signed the paperwork, I see no reason why not just in= clude >> > it. Also original help lookup could be left as low-resource, faster so= lution for >> > people who prefer to spend less resources on help lookup, while helpfu= l could be >> > enabled by a custom variable, something like show extended help or as >> > a minor mode. >> >> Instead of integrating the library as a whole, I'd prefer we extract >> those features from Helpful that people think are useful and not already >> available in Emacs. I don't think that having two separate help systems >> in core is a good idea, there'll be too much duplication and maintenance >> burden. >> >> Showing references to a symbol is an interesting feature (for example, >> to learn how to use an ELisp API by looking at examples). I see that >> Helpful provides this feature via the separate package elisp-refs >> (https://github.com/Wilfred/elisp-refs). The closest package I know >> that actually understands ELisp is el-search from ELPA, but elisp-refs >> is a more specific package for the concrete use case of searching for >> references. >> >> If we can get copyright papers, perhaps we could start by integrating >> the functionality of elisp-refs as an xref backend. Then the help >> system could use the new backend to provide a "References" link button. > > > Another vote for "extracting features"/"refactoring helpful" here... > > I tried to add support for helpful to eev about a year ago and I got > lost and stuck - I only had a few hours to play with it, and I was not > super focused, but was quite frustrated at the end. I was hoping that > helpful would be structured as a library plus a front-end, and it was > not. Of course, it is not a library, it is an application :). That is why I say = it is probably as much work to extract stuff out of it as to rebuild it. Even fas= ter is just to include it as is and offer a defcustom to switch between old bui= lt-in help and helpful. And once again, if you don't get helpful authors permissi= on, you can not just "extract", you will have to rebuild it from scratch. It mi= ght not be so difficult to do it, but I would prefer to do some more fun stuff = than to implement funcitonality that already exists if we can just include it. J= ust my 2 cents as they say.