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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273205 Archived-At: writes: > On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 05:34:26PM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: > > [...] > >> Yep, that mirrors what I'm seeing as well. Many younger users really use >> it primarily to provide a unique identifier (login) and for when they >> have to deal with institutions that don't provide other alternatives. > > I think part of the rush is nudge pressure applied by the Big Ones. > It's not possible to monetise mail in the same way as it is possible > to do with whatsapp, tiktok, twitter and the uncountable more or less > "secure" messengers popping up here and there. > > The nice thing about those communications platforms (nice from the > perspective of the venture capitalist) is that there's no separation > of platform and UI, so they get direct control of the user's perception. Another aspect of those is one we touched on in some of our previous conversations a year or so ago. The personal or company PR (public relations). It is sort of CV, persons or a companies track of popularity, what useful and how much they have done and so on. It is all about selection :). That is why Instagram is so popular I guess. Email based workflow does not promote same degree of self-promotion for people, so they will prefer public stuff. When they give you a PR it is visible on their GH/GL, when they send you a patch, there is a record in some mail database, but it is not as visible. > I opt out of that. Count me in whenever there is a platform which > separates transport and clients the way mail does and has at least > some choice of client applications with a perspective of diversity. > >> The other interesting trend I'm seeing is with many companies now >> working to minimise email as part of their internal/external workflows. >> Many companies are finding it a huge resource sink, cause of unnecessary >> stress/pressure on staff, source of significant security concerns and a >> real problem for records management. > > I have watched this process around the 2010s in one company. The > decision was made at top level (they were convinced by some Microsoft > salesperson [1] to switch to Office 365 instead of mail, because... > mail is old). Today, they still use mail, but have outsourced their > whole communications infrastructure to Microsoft, GDPR be dammed. Yes, everybody still uses mail, and a normal day in office for many, many peopel is to just sit with Outlook or Lotus Notes and answer/write mails 8 hours a day. I have seen this for last 15 years, but I do see a shift toward instant messaging and video messaging/ip calls, amongst younger generation. I mean "younger" in this context is in later 40's now :). But email is still the prime way of "recording" stuff, confirming so to say. > The resource sink, stress and pressure stemmed rather from that > change, for those who had to use that "new" platform (not to > talk about staff layoffs for the old sysadmins, but I disgress). > > Those having taken the decisions didn't have to use O365, they > have secretaries. For them, it was success. > > This may sound like an off-topic rant, but I'm serious. Not all > of this "mail is old" meme is for real. Some of it is propaganda > (I emphasise: /some/ of it). So we should take each critique > and address it one by one. > > To put it in other words: I won't pay a wholesale-ish "mail is > old" argument. I want to have more solid stuff. > > Cheers > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%ADma > > - t Your rants are always spot on.