From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 17:58:00 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87y29cj65y.fsf@posteo.net> <871r6pu6pc.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtp594xe.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtp45yp1.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10280"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 26 17:59:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJHmV-0002MJ-Bg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273040 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> I think that something like what you propose is OK for you who are developer and >> know what you do. But if you put something like this on auto in Emacs, I think >> that lots of people with get troubles which can lead to even more frequent mailing >> list :). > > I guess this depends on whether or not this would be enabled by default > or not. My suggestion uses ~/.emacs.d/site-lisp by default if it > exists. I get what you mean that this might be an issue, so it something > like this could (and probably should) be disabled by default, but easy > to activate. > >>> If there is some critical change or something that isn't ready yet, I'd >>> just use "git stash". >>> >>>> What you are suggesting is to effectively use "site-lisp" as another >>>> package-user-dir (~/.emacs.d/elpa on my machine). You are also auto >>>> recursing in all dirs, so if user wish to remove something they have to >>>> remove that directory from the path? >>> >>> Yes, but I hesitate to compare it to package-user-dir, as to me packages >>> stand in relation to some package manager, while site-lisp.el only >>> implements the bare minimum. >> >> Exactly. I am not sure if it is even the bare miniumum. >> >> Bringing in paths and code in Emacs, is just but one part of package >> management. Installling dependencies and also uninstalling everything correctly, >> not leaving orphaned pacakges behind or removing something still needed is as >> important as well. For that reason I think that going through package.el would >> be a better idea. > > I think I agree. package-list-packages already lists different > package states (available, installed, built-in, ...) so it might also > make sense to have a "local" package as well. > >> Everyone's setup is of course private, but I don't think that is a >> good idea and good alternative to proper package management. For the same reason >> why we don't install packages manually in our gnu/linux distributions but use >> some sort of package management system. Doing manually ./configure - make dance >> is nowdays considered a bad practice. > > I'm not sure, it depends on what you are doing. package managers usually > don't expect the user to change the software that has been > installed. You usually only get a binary version and any modification > will be overridden. If you want to work on some software, and actually > use your software freedom, you have to do the ./configure-make-dance. Of course, but usually number of packages one works on and number of installed packages is not as nearly as same. I do run Emacs form the source dir. But Emacs and few others are excpetion. > I'm not sure, it depends on what you are doing. package managers usually > don't expect the user to change the software that has been > installed. You usually only get a binary version and any modification > will be overridden. Yes, so it is, and that does not really suit package development in Emacs. So we would probably need something that goes well with development. I think that times have have changed, git and web service indeed has revolutinionized the way people, share and contrubute with each other. Also hackability of Emacs and lisp are a bit unique. So we probably need something that works well with git, at least for now (nothign says git is given for all times). What about having something like 'package-install-dev' which will install dev sources, git repo and do what Stefan suggested he does in elpa-adming.el? Of course could be options to install all packages as 'dev', or have a list of 'dev' or some other way to controll this automatically.