From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Helpful in Emacs? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 13:41:55 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83wnnoj3gz.fsf@gnu.org> <83pmtgisxf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17319"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: me@wilfred.me.uk, stefan@marxist.se, mardani29@yahoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 10 14:05:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOfHI-0004K0-OG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:05:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOfHH-0001wA-KM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274512 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Arthur Miller >> Cc: stefan@marxist.se, me@wilfred.me.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> mardani29@yahoo.es >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:00:47 +0200 >> >> What I care most for at the moment are: doc lookup for autoladed functions >> without the doc in the stub, and not yet loaded; and code inlined in help buffer, >> instead of just plain link. The former would make it possible to save some >> space, for example docs does not need to be included in stubs, and can be >> fetched on demand. For example package-quickstart.el wouldn't need to pack 800 >> kb of docs when some of those will never be requested anyway. > > If this means asking for help on an autoloaded function will load its > package, I don't think it should be the default. We could perhaps No no, not loading the package. Just docs. That can be arranged, right? Since we are poking in sources anyway? :). Of course it would not be by default. We know that all new options are comming with a defcustom to turn them on, since thay are off by default :). No, it is (relatively) cpu intensive, especially if user run with compressed sources. User could have also opted out sources, so it can't be a default option at all. I remember a discussion with someone on Reddit who complained that helpful is slow for him, and I forgott in that discussion that I am running directly from the source dir with uncompressed sources. > arrange for a button that would load the package and display the full > documentation, but that's all. > >> The latter is just plain nice to have. It saves time if I can just scroll other >> (help) buffer and read the source without need ot click on link in it to fetch >> the source code. > > Again, displaying the source by default is too much, IMNSHO: the code > of a function could be very large. Doing this by default also assumes > that the user will necessarily want to look at the source, something > that is IME questionable at best. So this should also be optional, > and even then the code should be changed to avoid showing a huge > *Help* window (since currently, we fit the window size to the text in > the *Help* buffer). Exactly, and same here, not by default but as an opt-in option.