From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Motif support Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 13:15:51 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83fsqlzyxo.fsf@gnu.org> <837dbxzv6x.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1a4wnay.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf0cwif8.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1a4wgg0.fsf@telefonica.net> <83h7b0wg27.fsf@gnu.org> <838rwbx13n.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfujlmh9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tuezimgz.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39720"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 23 13:58:00 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0NfS-000A5Y-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282938 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> Ok. Thanks for confirming. By the way, what is the reason? Maybe they >> have implemented the functionality they needed? Is it considered >> complete? > > No, it's because their last user (GTK+) has stopped using Cairo in its > latest release, replacing it with a custom alternative that can only be > used with GTK. Ok. Thanks. >> Hardware acceleration only on X is fine. Win32/Mac are proprietary >> OS:s, so if Cairo does support gpu acceleration on those, I think it >> is fine. Current Emacs does not use gpu acceleration anyway (more than >> what OS uses to render windows), so I don't think it is a major issue. > > Emacs does use GPU acceleration on every supported platform, as long as > that is present. Than we are not talking about same thing here. Of course every OS window will use gpu if it's present. I meant using something like opengl or other terms to render stuff ourselves not via OS. >> I can only speak for win32, since I have never owned a mac machine so >> have no idea how it works overthere. It is PITA if you gonna compile >> Cairo on Win32 yourself from the sources because you have to chase and >> compile all the deps, glib, libxm2 and co and so on. But it is not >> PITA if you install precompiled one, or ou choose to install it via >> MSYS2 which is as simple as intalling it on Arch Linux. Anyway, it >> wouldn't be problem for Emacs, Emacs does not include Cairo sources, >> and even if you prefer to compile it yourself, since Emacs is build on >> MSYS2 (is cygwin officially supported?), building Cairo is just one >> command line away, just as in gnu/Linux, so I don't think it is PITA. > > [..] > >> Anyway, if gdk or cairo itself as a 2d drawing library to implement >> guis is not acceptable, there are others. Personally I would prefer >> emacs to do gui in Lisp, not in C, so that C core could be simplifed >> to just deal with OS windows, fonts and input, but as I understand >> from the discussion, it is not acceptable. > > I can speak for Haiku at least when I say that Cairo isn't very > portable. On every not-that-popular platform (such as Haiku), you can > only use image surfaces, and then you have to work out how to integrate > them well with the toolkit provided by that platform, and things start > to go downhill from there. Ok, I understand. > Besides, it will bring us no benefit at all, except to cause annoyance > to many users. (Have you ever tried making Fontconfig work properly on > other platforms? Cairo needs that for fonts.) Most of the mess we have > results from having to take care of the idiosyncrasies of each window > system, and not implementing the basic drawing operations for that > window system. So you are lobbying for implementing Emacs own graphic context abstraction? :) In general I think Emacs already has the code needed, but refactoring it is probably quite a work. But it can be done :).