From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the adoption of transient.el Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:24:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <877di4on3d.fsf@posteo.net> <87im1oy6mw.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39316"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Gabriel , Philip Kaludercic , Yuri Khan , Emacs developers To: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 23:25:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mAIxc-000A4k-Qm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:271926 Archived-At: Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> On the other hand something has always felt off about transient, in the = sense >> that it is breaking some expected behaviour or couldn't pin-point yet, b= ut >> just unconsciously stumble over.=20 > > This is exactly how I feel about the "modern" interfaces in Emacs. I repo= rted a > bug in Embark recently, and because I could not select and copy the text,= I > ended up re-typing the text that was right in front of me in Emacs. Say w= hat? > For me, Emacs is a program where I expect to never waste time re-typing > anything. Magit has a similar feel to it, and I can never be sure if the = program > will allow me to select text in the diverse parts of its user interface. = In my > opinion, such uncertainty is bad for power users. I would expect this fro= m Apple > or Microsoft software, because their latest =E2=80=9CUX designers=E2=80= =9D surely know better > than anyone, but in Emacs? I personally feel that Magit has some really useful things to add to the Emacs, and for some people it is even it's user interface. I would say Transient is one of those things that are not for me, but that ceratinly have their place. To clarify, Transient interface feels like old dos reimplementation: pick a choice from a list. Seems like a trend nowadays. During last months I have seen some libraries anounced in c and c++ Reddit for similar kind of interfaces. People call this "non-curses" TUIs. Sine GUI entrance, this choices have migrated into pull-down or context sensitive menus, and ocassional more explorative list like checkbox or radio box panel or similar. I never had problem with TUIs and nowdays with millenials grown up on computers, it seems like we don't need educational and explorative GUIs, and are inclined to trade speed for the looks. But I regress here. I personally don't need this explorative part that a Transient menu offers to me, because it is a hickup I recently wanted a Helm interface to switch between git branches. I would like to be able to hit a key and have all local branches poped in a Helm and just type a letter or two and hit enter to switch to a branch. Thierry, Helm maintainer pointed to me that Magit offers an inteface for this: I have to run Magit than bb and than Magit will offer a completing read which will pop the asked Helm interface. To me this is not a straightforward enough so I have actually coded my branch switcher as a Helm addon. But anyway, to Tarsius, and anyone else, I don't mean Magit is bad; Magit has it's strenghts; in my opinion it is a sort-of pull-down menu for TUIs, and it certainly has it's audience.