From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Motif support Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 12:46:13 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83k0fwwhw5.fsf@gnu.org> <87ilvgwfor.fsf@telefonica.net> <83a6grx1o9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k6zwvi1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 23 12:47:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0MYx-0003J5-SC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282931 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Arthur Miller >> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 08:58:29 +0100 >> Cc: =C3=93scar Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org >>=20 >> In a way a repl is kind of similar to a game loop in that it reads input= (read), >> update the world (eval) and render the world (print). The other similari= ty is >> that Emacs is also controlling it's loop rather than fitting into some >> frameworks loop such as Gtk, or some other toolkits framework. You rathe= r use >> those as a library of functionality to draw things when they suit Emacs,= while >> desktop applications would usually fit into a framework and let toolkit = do the >> update and drawing when it needs to be done. GUI toolkits like Gtk are u= sually >> "don't call us, we call you", while games, and I perecive Emacs, are rat= her, "do >> this for me when I ask you". > > That difference is largely irrelevant in the context of this > particular discussion, since we are specifically talking about drawing > stuff, not about the framework or the main loop. Well it is what it is about, how Emacs draw the world (or rather buffers). = Since Emacs uses toolkit in that fashion, and it already pretends that a gui wind= ow is a text terminal (as D. Colascione put it in one old text he wrote), Emacs c= an as well use it's own library functions to do the gui, and just use a (relative= ly) tiny wrapper for os/hardware to implement that abstraction. I suggested Cairo or gdk as such, but that does not seem to be popular for different reasons you and Po mentioned, but there might be other ones alrea= dy written that could be suitable. I have understanding that you hae implemented quite advanced text renderer = at least on X; I am not sure if you do same on win32 or Emacs uses built-in OS= text rendering on Windows. In that light, I wonder if Emacs even need 3rd party abstraction and toolkits other than for, as you said in the beginning of th= e thread, to fit into looks of the platform.