From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Introducing emacs-webkit and more thoughts on Emacs rendering (was Rethinking the design of xwidgets) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:44:20 +0100 Message-ID: References: <864kmzupp0.fsf@akirakyle.com> <86pn46awrr.fsf@akirakyle.com> <87y2ise7j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87lferb7co.fsf@gnus.org> <20201126082711.GA12134@tuxteam.de> <87im9s3pdh.fsf@logand.com> <87eekf445j.fsf@logand.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15601"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tomas Hlavaty Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 09:46:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kiZOi-0003wg-Oh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:259851 Archived-At: Tomas Hlavaty writes: > On Thu 26 Nov 2020 at 19:34, arthur miller wrote: >> Imagine all the vulnerabilities brought in by all the other libraries >> Emacs uses, and Emacs uses quite many. I don't see difference there. > > exactly, so many libraries (i already wrote that my emacs has about 94) > in the same process written in memory unsafe language > > also not only vulnerabilities but also memory leaks >> If you are aware of some special vulnerability in libmpv, then please >> rapport it to the project so they can fix it. > > if you are aware of some special tumor, then please go to a doctor? > > i am talking about prevention > > what about not smoking in the first place? >> For the rest of your questions: answer should probably be >> self-evident: less processes means less resources used, > > it's 2020 and we want to avoid processes for that reason? strange > > emacs consumes all available memory easily quite often, i don't see any > improvement on this front even with so many libraries Maybe you should help them in the work, send in your traces if it eats all memory quite often. >> response at runtime and programmatic control usually means more >> flexibility. > > yes, i said that libs are easier to use Easier is not same as more flexible. On contrary more flexibility usually means more complexity. Bringing a library like libmpv into Emacs is certainly not easy. You are free to check the docs for embedding: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv-examples/tree/master/libmpv Trust me, it is much easier to shell-execute mpv player, or use Emms as I already do; or just M-! to play music or video with mpv. >> For same reasons, I wish even dired was not usin ls program but was >> built on directory-files instead. > > i wish more of emacs was written in memory safe elisp too > > but this is a different question altogether > >> By the way, I hope you can formulate yourself ess passive aggressive >> in future. I perceive your mail as something belonging rather to >> discussions on twitch chatt or reddit at best. > > sorry that it comes that way > > it's a shame that you attack me instead of discussed ideas I don't know Thomas; maybe that is way you are communicating that I am not used too, but I am at least honest and telling you how it sounded to me; take it or leave it. I still percieve this email as trolling. I don't see anything really technical you are bringing in; but the very last thing about memory safe lisp, and I don't mean it is an attack on you, just the way I read your mail. Maybe it's me. Yes in word 2020 I still care about efficiency, I see it as a moral imperative not to waste resources. I might be weird, but that is how I am.