From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 20:55:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4XvMn7QQudwuCq-3cSOnqK_gBoHnmblv2--PKi2oupbCsZwaxxrzA2Chwb6LEzzg1TYjAJNboC8lwPgw8VA5IhYUBs-Jly9HfTqPtsgZUHg=@protonmail.com> <01502186-69cb-86fb-612e-868068e7a998@yandex.ru> <6e2c9c07-31c4-38eb-c679-7e680f9f02ed@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="106773"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ndame , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 20:56:22 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxJG-000Rg4-E5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 20:56:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37410 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxJF-0003uz-HL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:56:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35490) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxIY-0002kA-GA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxIX-0004YG-NQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oln040092073063.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.73.63]:31366 helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxIX-0004Tx-AB; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:55:37 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=h3g3Qv+1SPH7baOEpBpRQCfxPYRoyZyR5HxGM3nCDlTbXbZQc3rHzWMvB1D1NTBZZ/FFauPUg3MhImHEpn2kbz3GST0JhG6qHRKEfksTRreL7cm9UMIFFCP1SP+cwL1pj0RMnQKGTVKiXQ0RDogkv2kigX2SIS+Vy7ynNKPy/6haAjarFQrlxDF2lD1uu2tyGMIydCOZb9kfAONtyOw2tDOmNl2i6B/Y4hgijl9le4aJMj0zGR9GXD6lAvkvMd6V2O6LGh+lLTVNTXYN64EHdu9gjSOqk+JzYkg8dqTKGGRmmYxBQzAQ87Cyud2rdPkiQE4/p2dMCD8NeeqBcsstNw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=FYj4Ad2MggKU3+h2ZPWRB3Lc7bkYyl9zN6SNTEH93hU=; b=nuEr8prP5Al9BGOnDwfKZhi80haJ41CxoSp6GrBL76cTHkTvMsmOpx79Cs47p0P5d4k3dxyVJiHplouGj2J57UrjFbOVS3tvmRvYh8Wn1eK6E3ntmSchXo329jxqb/yJwgr7ZneZ5gzm9fNKD2UV1TQo1Mf1TUiOSclMxlFMmD1TcJUSXpin8RUqVQ0LqCYWd542/sDNxWyG7aOdUxC8+jzccGmnaIeF9Rfx/BD4BSHEIaMZHh5eUaIwqOtT2LUVKZV/9mEP5SJNDxa7egtpne2pFuhoo8ZYnSgdqEdktme+9DeLTInuvuvFCNBQT77Y7gli/fXf7WJJO5+GPr064A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=live.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=live.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=FYj4Ad2MggKU3+h2ZPWRB3Lc7bkYyl9zN6SNTEH93hU=; b=QfCRmv5lowUz+TkEDAPKy2RM++VGbr7lHFBXcGTm+HVg0EZ1FsNiQgd+bZ5VjjnKzzWeb7Jhhce2g126RMxNtUICtg9DnKXrmcYLu6EGU09IRzgyzyNuukRs2EdOpPd8LqvSyJH30AsTFbaHCHz5AQDHXTabzgL/lUPBH6XCrCA7Ag6sCkduPsMhtYsGZt1Kv3qAqUh8adDOv2nBaLqqH89ZEtE5UuAm2azAhgZOgz+Bk+RZT2BCbnEMR2ZykMjR8OPCNj+NomuvQCPxrPadep0fuTP5E51uSV+hC+9Wuk6wPhTjhAjTTwJvQujp38P+/XjSbYm04msSzUA3Ax5sLQ== Original-Received: from HE1EUR04FT064.eop-eur04.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0d::52) by HE1EUR04HT204.eop-eur04.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0d::402) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.19; Sat, 2 May 2020 18:55:34 +0000 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0d::47) by HE1EUR04FT064.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0d::226) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.19 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 2 May 2020 18:55:34 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:9922F8B046F3A42FE3CCE00809D815F7BB0325DD3550C32579EB6CFB10DC653D; UpperCasedChecksum:6306EC6498663FD3B877443A285F2F76417486DD8447D2676F5D7D89A9C71725; SizeAsReceived:8121; Count:48 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16]) by AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2958.027; Sat, 2 May 2020 18:55:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: <6e2c9c07-31c4-38eb-c679-7e680f9f02ed@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sat, 2 May 2020 21:20:18 +0300") X-ClientProxiedBy: AM5PR0701CA0067.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:2::29) To AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:1a2::19) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87bln6f9p6.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM5PR0701CA0067.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:2::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.14 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 2 May 2020 18:55:33 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87bln6f9p6.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [jRv/n10kjROnbWu/JoERX3CaURnlb0me] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 48 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2ccc6d9e-6028-4cf7-4322-08d7eeca64ce X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: HE1EUR04HT204: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: lN85++uw0q6HlNvXtHRMuMZJC/UJqfAdtImOFk79bGXZgPEMDT1+Mb/4Vb3oZ95e2A8uD8dh4iwPLhJdo7yECbUCU+C1SiUeruvhYvfb/NGKtu8MpHB1lNLlwDdboAD9Dh82ZGo0TNLFCLK9glkOs0iI/6csCAwTXqmsQ4jOzv17LzuWaW5ogKVGbaCadMe7HjVlfGECNAieJzEqz7nnnQ== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: wHP+sUrkAqWXb2l0/vBVsw4k/8a9yso5z7srlTru+xwaEB/oCh3iguETjVP0EPUdOVjPVURugFGszM3bcljevVxuHM8NEcJxY+1m87bCTK4AoQTozIb+7oY++qaRU2pCSu0Xd99DbOqN0xbuF8uNMw== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2ccc6d9e-6028-4cf7-4322-08d7eeca64ce X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2020 18:55:34.1065 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR04HT204 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.73.63; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 14:55:35 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 40.92.73.63 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248542 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 02.05.2020 20:00, Arthur Miller wrote: >> I don't know, but it >> seems like both Vi(m) & Emacs have got a revival lately. > > That's true for FOSS editors in general, though. We didn't have so many good > options before. Indeed, seems as a general trend, we have never had so much FOSS software in general, not just editos, but everything, from AI research to Game Engines, 3D Editors, compilers, libraries, you name it. Seems like world has realized power of open source, which is great.