From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:44:47 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <83pnbqzimz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429105233.GG24737@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="127909"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 30 14:45:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jU8ZJ-000X8X-CI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:45:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58896 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jU8ZI-0003US-DL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:45:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40160) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jU8Yg-000306-VH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:44:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jU8Yf-0004fN-DV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:44:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oln040092068061.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.68.61]:56549 helo=EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jU8Ye-0004f4-P7; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:44:53 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=K8KAFMt6ybRhAWRbi7eO+c02sI3V34J+4UoQruXdqMwFen1tn/KsNxOvmC1eS92mtS2l9LfZ/8IotRAahOgdinhWuHOjgY5q0GjDAIzwgylf8jeTC/Hd1bprqpUWXTLx3sw6KNWDYibySM6+YBtqALNee7e64P1P/3fCCM4sTdlaFWvJsvGB3mfhf1b2tqNtIGXR9IYrDJ/Xi2sMVKFoZ3RTUbUzPfhiQU0W28XDCxnAUhIz6P2KCIn56CNjF88J4dPgvbANE7TzruUJI5GNZd01Jd1fcI8q5MxzN2dJ5JVD4dBGiVBJEkW9/pBruWNBLkEkItYfSD6EaD7OjO5nkg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cUKFQUAmL1aBo/kg6QoVV/n/66drjPK6u8Y1aXKqzKg=; b=M28gS2d70tLZvF9WXRuzf6uLuD1VMt5Z8BASXNccq7YMLPYnFWBlxlztwMxZLMxxolrUxn8YJSBylHEJ2+zu3/0bjzxG1iHQnTYiuJoOw8sgfUeB3W2Jae71BB3U/xt+ncPAfjfQ02O1qqEh177iZU5tLE0NLyWfqU9cHC5eDTZM1/0CTo+gXh0mxYz3W/7HxEKgsDP9hNNnIkAd8V3AgAdEBr8iAo4mH8rZo56xqBja3zt1lf43cTDp+QyfslbPIUh8aFhVWYAwrRwEXiGQ/XQGfaXJz19CyDkFsq4b6AaayoM7+DVyfv6rfzqHunvOPu7bQFj0iWQUi3TOQd4OQw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=live.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=live.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cUKFQUAmL1aBo/kg6QoVV/n/66drjPK6u8Y1aXKqzKg=; b=FfhYJ2BlqETdHP1w+ku7QNA/M7B6VpMr+ceHqTzzwFJEot6ap63Y767p6W/c3uJ1vHU1vbGPq5dUxzbmSWuw51d7uTcq9nEhtQIyeRVEG0cAZ2sGiSh7SskOi3ev8wpYmDdecwzi7nCT7rKRxn1powSfxQCbsYjyVnkOW9emuNjuDGsORqT5CeFNH5fL7jqftNFyEWf7dMtdWHFkQBB19QvvaVPxmUInsmT4QwcIJ/2yu8tS9VPfkf6kVai+HO6rDBcfo7lrXhkTONBszqAhK8h4Mri6sr2HnHPmiz0cYzUS3/ceAjhH9L8ol/1RaBOaDB2epUDdtxuyfykLqlu0lA== Original-Received: from VE1EUR02FT030.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::41) by VE1EUR02HT232.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::314) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2937.15; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:44:49 +0000 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::49) by VE1EUR02FT030.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::127) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.19 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:44:49 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:5F8F9BC76EA5241415DBDA70C5318BF59B4B1387B625B4703B2D119553BA5D33; UpperCasedChecksum:B5DA36564D7AA05F68ADFA4F5B4CDA1ADCB3A3C05121D61CDC131CB23C05E239; SizeAsReceived:7917; Count:48 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16]) by AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.020; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:44:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20200429105233.GG24737@tuxteam.de> (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:52:34 +0200") X-ClientProxiedBy: AM7PR02CA0017.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:100::27) To AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:1a2::19) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <874kt1rvls.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM7PR02CA0017.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:100::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.20 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:44:48 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <874kt1rvls.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [CseuQaG4Dk2Oa/uEqN/Q0AB5Qbmw9rQR] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 48 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 938d689e-33cb-4f5e-091b-08d7ed044492 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VE1EUR02HT232: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: aQhF/D+CeFZ5XTvRBkfpNk9+OY2z5JD3N3BV1j7MtSUcOxlkG/is85IkyQWKxF70L3b+KqOOpbEZJ935Blnk8pItwvq7JhBpJv6Xkn/lc0RmdjTTzRbtMv4WL68r99T/g4uGt3CPPX7PInYXOskvu/8GHzVcf6oOh44zbYEYZlXtUGdAZDrV1PMeqiioI8Fsgj+yYdJsXOAw9knK6T3Yu5JtRkMFhSRo0qTwGmjMx6dgr3FNqYSi2LbTnyOHpDgC X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: XxMvPoiAQVfTurEkW4k2lQJfq4oxaDI33NEbMNUyb09ufGy6+xfl15wDQJcymUZur65M3k9Ga4rjPQe+gCgtA0cRdcoa7hIyuVw57d/HlRolaDbMTAJN3T7c0lO5rvCCFVsfFTgJBlOwZrfIdRI2DA== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 938d689e-33cb-4f5e-091b-08d7ed044492 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2020 12:44:48.9526 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR02HT232 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.68.61; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/30 08:44:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 40.92.68.61 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248227 Archived-At: tomas@tuxteam.de writes: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 01:33:08PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:17:55 +0200 >> > From: >> > >> > > > * https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Association-Lists.html sometimes assoc, >> > > > alist-get, assq, copy-alist. How am I supposed to use `C-h f alist TAB` to discover the function I want? I >> > > > can't, I have to go to that webpage and read it all. >> > > >> > > I think "C-h d alist RET" is your friend. >> > >> > Yes, but :) >> > >> > For people with some roots in Lisp culture (I'm one of them, >> > mind you), "alist" is obvious. It's an association list, duh. >> > For newcomers... not so much. >> >> I was replying to the above, where the issue is that not all of the >> functions' names begin with "alist". Evidently, this means the >> "alist" obstacle was already overcome. > > In the concrete, yes. I still mull over the more general > problem (without having a good idea, unfortunately). > > I just wanted to raise some awareness, since it's an > ever-recurring pattern. > > Cheers > -- t I think you are completely right. API naming in Emacs could use some more love. "Namespacing" probably can't be used for everything, but it would be useful if stuff was prefixed by api where possible. I would also find it usefull if names reflected more of functionality where it can. I use helm and try to discover API from the list of compeletions, but it does not work so well when names are not really reflecting important differences. For example make-process and call-process - which one was asynchronous? I have to look it up in either comments in source or manual, because there is nothing in the name that suggests which one to use. Of course namespacing *everythign* is probably not possible, but where possible I think namespacing and maybe more carefull choosen names would help. It certainly can't make things worse. I don't understand why so much resistence to your remark in rest of answers.