From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Deniz Dogan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs User Friendliness Question/Hope Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:38:22 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1279277325.2135.114.camel@logrus.localdomain> <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279291193 17423 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 14:39:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:39:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jeff Clough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 16:39:51 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZm4m-0001Fm-L8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:39:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47811 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZm4T-0008Vf-R3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:39:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55554 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZm4N-0008V6-H3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:39:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZm3y-0000Sa-6g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:38:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f41.google.com ([209.85.161.41]:47022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZm3y-0000Rm-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:38:54 -0400 Original-Received: by fxm20 with SMTP id 20so1252775fxm.0 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tQmuFr0o+4qeI4Mua2u6Dd+3n7kBA68/m3BtGVZfPdw=; b=TQb33dXSEQFpuoC9sP/zCOhLEGwjKO9r1fZXUAS3AmDYEKKQpSB/S4cUDkpGO+HefF Ypzx0rcI9W1XcdiC9Vy85IlaIOh8Z6vxrxJRSjQOlzRU4q07tVZAe/fr5ihSQdkehJrj sGzON0tmb8Cn/0sV17GIVj92iwSZYwSy6N290= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Zh6ZHfQ+yCsX1vakQJgKsI8SCueR+2wUoPZAJZ9IMabXHoJwFuTUFXweqaX3nIQtoa 5w+pjIq3OP7lYeXeKH8aXN5mUZ06TM8ZtlSrC4jaTjxhUCLVfYH+Atwb0uIo+21dpHti r7hhuBYbtq1FXBrwTxeNKDdYcqoYEJlAREZGU= Original-Received: by 10.216.237.100 with SMTP id x78mr875644weq.114.1279291132318; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.182.135 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:38:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127438 Archived-At: 2010/7/16 Jeff Clough : > On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 15:07 +0100, Uday S Reddy wrote: >> On 7/16/2010 11:48 AM, Jeff Clough wrote: >> >> > With Emacs 23.x, this takes only a few lines in my .emacs file. =A0As = the >> > amount of "user friendliness" goes up, the lines in my .emacs will >> > likely also go up (the change to how kill/yank interacts with the >> > clipboard is an example). >> >> How does it matter if the .emacs grows? > > It might not matter to you, but it matters to me and likely to some > other people as well. =A0I'd rather my .emacs contain only things that > extend the software (new bindings, loading my own lisp, etc.) or set > variables necessary for the packages I use (like pointing slime to > sbcl). =A0The less code needed to do things like turning something off or > tweaking an "internal" setting, the better. > >> Don't you think it is worth the trouble if it helps Emacs continue to st= ay >> popular and thriving with new generations of users? > > I think some people think it's worth the trouble of changing Emacs to > work in a more expected way for new users. =A0Some people may also think > it's worth adding a few lines to their .emacs files to accommodate this. > I also think some people would like the number of lines to be kept to a > minimum. > > There's a way to let Emacs "continue to stay popular and thriving with > new generations of users" that does not also make it more difficult to > work with (or configure) for existing users that are quite happy with > the way it is now. > > I don't think it's unreasonable for a new "usability" feature to check a > global setting before doing it's magic. =A0Or to otherwise be disabled > unless either enabled specifically or enabled via a global "make Emacs > work like Notepad" command. =A0Make it on by default, but give me a way t= o > turn it off with one line, as opposed to having one to three lines for > every one of these enhancements. > But that's easier said than done, isn't it? Where should we draw the line between what's "new" and Notepad-ish and what's "old" and Emacs-y? To be honest, it sounds like you're looking to add a function to Emacs which makes it act exactly as the way you want it to. Every Emacs user has their own taste, which is why the init files exist in the first place. Let's not start adding what is essentially custom user configurations to Emacs. --=20 Deniz Dogan