From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Andrew W. Nosenko" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:06:13 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com> <87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83tylmyclx.fsf@gnu.org> <4C961787.3090907@gmail.com> <878w2xsigj.fsf@gmail.com> <87zkvd5hwa.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285031202 28938 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2010 01:06:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel devel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 21 03:06:41 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxrJf-0004B7-Bh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:06:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34267 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxrJR-0005oJ-EL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:06:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48273 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxrJH-0005n2-VQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:06:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxrJF-0004yk-KB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:06:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176]:61736) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxrJF-0004yg-EE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:06:13 -0400 Original-Received: by qyk2 with SMTP id 2so5503949qyk.0 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JnJ6fBTFZw2FU014ROLg15gKwLC6/HUBywGe8S583no=; b=M2hJukDsO430gAwp0Kke7Li1QNqVLQ+pHMbMN+Cbwoz0gD2upAfjjZFGu9NGEyT2r3 JdtSN6XyRdBQYOPRxSlir5XCYlFJLIBkgQXQ7Jg7swb2pQ+aaxu28hC3tyG3PMP4UpcB 08Rdj8uTulXHGJeiPGIvmfHXW3VQXh+S3dJRo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Jnl0XLmANDBnFpltihY4flofGpcDJ4JN/TOeb4AlGDayHAKkzDkKUkH2OPIOkhLwdG PlzDttL0iuo3Qu1yPi+A9ab3gDoHUQQC7POSSsBD2H/RexdVatUE4ru82mT+snGkyhP7 QIGDPTwwuqURYP+4ZYYi+GrtUbIm+ycbWvAfc= Original-Received: by 10.229.217.83 with SMTP id hl19mr6817648qcb.15.1285031173102; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.229.25.201 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:06:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130555 Archived-At: On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 03:28, Andrew W. Nosenko wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 01:09, Stefan Monnier = wrote: >> Now for the spinoff thread that keeps spinning off other ones: I'd be >> willing to decouple C-x C-x from "(re)activate the region", but then we >> need to find some other way to reactivate the region. >> Suggestions welcome. =A0Of course there's C-u C-x C-x, but I don't find = it >> very appealing (just like C-u C-x C-x doesn't sound too appealing to >> people who currently want to exchange-mark-and-point without activating >> the region). > > About stop activating region by C-x C-x. =A0I'm (of course) unable to > speak for anyone who uses t-m-m, but for me C-x C-x, same as C-x C-x > C-x C-x is intentionally thing for activating region. =A0And usual goal > is to send this region to the external filter (as in C-x C-x C-u M-|). > =A0Just depending on goals I want to start review or editing of results > from top or from bottom and therefore use 2 or 4 C-x. =A0And it is > simple and logical: exchange point and mark and activate region, just > repeated twice if need (thanks to "activate" instead of "toggle" > semantics). =A0Now it may be transformed to exchange and some when > latter activate. =A0What if I hit C-x yet another 2 times? =A0Continue to > activate region? =A0Start to toggle? =A0Start to toggle every 2nd (even) > pair of C-x and do nothing on every 1st (odd) pair of C-x? =A0Something > another? > > Again, please excuse me, I have no intention to insult anyone > personally or as group. =A0I just argue that here are many things. =A0And > logical consistence is not the least of them. =A0Just because decreases > learning curve (in short term) and keeps productivity in the long > term. =A0And it is just from user's point of view, without counting the > Emacs developers convenience and time (any inconsistency produces > exceptional cases, any exceptional case produces special control flow > branch, any (especially irrational) branch is the source for errors or > at least brain resources eater). Just for clarity: it was about "don't activate region on 1st C-x C-x and activate it on 2nd C-x C-x". Reading the Chong Yidong's "C-x C-x" e-mail hinted me that you meant replace C-x C-x binding from "exchange and activate" to "just exchange" and introduce the new "just activate" key binding. Sorry for misunderstanding. :-( --=20 Andrew W. Nosenko